DISQUS

louisgray.com: http://blog.louisgray.com/2009/04/you-have-entered-no-retweeting-zone.html

  • Jesse Stay · 7 months ago
    I find retweeting quite effective. I often see many retweets beyond my original retweet when I retweet something. It's a great way of promoting others' content, similar to Digg or StumbleUpon.

    It's almost just as effective as a "like" on FriendFeed, and I often use the two similarly (and my likes go out to Twitter rather than me just retweeting it). It's the way I share good content that I think is deserving for others to read, without having to re-blog each one. IMO Retweets are powerful, and give you the opportunity to help, and highlight other users on Twitter whose content you like. You can't do that quite as effectively through a blog post (unless you Tweet your blog post, but even then you're taking the credit, rather than giving it all to them)
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Jesse, I have heard others compare Retweeting to using Digg or Stumbleupon. Interestingly, I've greatly reduced my use of both those services of late as well. I don't send my likes from FriendFeed to Twitter either, because I've always tried to keep my noise level on Twitter low.
  • Jesse Stay · 7 months ago
    Louis, I do think you should try retweeting more just as an experiment to
    see the effect. I've found people enjoy retweets more than they hate them.
    Twitter's own flawed nature encourages disorganized noise, so most people
    are used to that.
  • Maddie Grant · 7 months ago
    Hi Louis, I think this issue actually has something to do with the "social capital" and role of the retweeter. For example, I've branded myself as someone who helps the association/non-profit industry learn about social media. So I'm constantly keeping an eye out for interesting stuff from socmed people (like you), relevant to that industry, which I will tweet. And if some of that interesting stuff happens to come from tweets by people I follow, then I think it's only fair to retweet and give them credit. I'm retweeting for the benefit of my "niche" followers (who are not necessarily following all the socmed people I follow); and I'm spreading the word about someone else having good stuff, who may potentially gain some exposure or a follower or two thanks to my retweet. If anything, I'm saying "thanks for this good stuff" by way of my RT.

    Also, if someone (or I) ask for RT's, it's usually to get the word spread faster about some time-specific event, or something relevant to a whole group of people (eg "registration is now open for SxSW, please RT") which we're all helping to tell our community about.

    Twitter is all about sharing the love, I think. Retweeting is part of the currency that makes content viral, that makes word of mouth happen, that makes community grow.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Maddie, I understand your point of view, which is why I said there's no right way or wrong way. I choose not to do RTs because I believe my blog/Twitter usage is about creating new content, not just repeating content. It could be I'm naive and hope that people see data and that it will be distributed naturally, but I've been careful not to RT even as its grown more commonplace.
  • Maddie Grant · 7 months ago
    Looks like (from a later comment below) that you have no issue with rewriting tweets and adding a "via @" - which I agree is a better way to RT than a straight RT. :) Unless you are specifically quoting someone (regardless of a link) which I do sometimes with tweets that make me laugh out loud...

    I also realize that from your point of view it doesn't make sense to RT since you're squarely in the 1% category of content creators... But many of us want to be editors (for want of a better term) who separate the wheat from the chaff for our more niche audiences...
  • Social Marketing Impact · 7 months ago
    Man, I couldn't agree with you more! All the Twitter "graders" show me as spammy, simply because I rarely retweet -- if you grab my attention in that noise, than I put some stinking effort into highlighting why you've grabbed my attention... Good, good stuff! :-)
  • Martin Bryant · 7 months ago
    There's nothing wrong with retweeting occasionally. There's definitely something annoying about people who do nothing but retweet, but I just try not to follow people like that.
  • fogofeternity · 7 months ago
    I disagree entirely.

    I've no issue with your argument against people begging for retweets, but I see no problem at all with unsolicited retweets.

    By retweeting you're disseminating a link or tweet that you found useful and worthwhile to a wider audience - i.e. your own followers. You're also (in the case of most retweets) acknowleding the original source and giving them credit. You're highlighting good work quickly and directly. Certainly you could also follow up with a blog post to do the same in more detail, but why not do both.

    I've found so much good content via Twitter, and I'd guess that at least half of it comes from retweets. That's content I wouldn't otherwise have found - the person who originally sent the tweet wasn't someone I followed, I didn't otherwise know of their blog or the post. Now those people have another reader for their blog, and perhaps I've highlighted their work in my own blog or other forums. None of which would happen without a retweet.

    It's far from lazy unless you're just copy and pasting without reading the original article, and never doing anything other than retweeting. If retweeting genuinely solid content is part of your daily contribution on twitter, as well as your comments and status, then you're providing a good service to everyone.

    To be honest, I don't think Twitter is particularly conversational in any case. Twitter is instant and brief. Conversation occurs in blogs, forums and the likes of Friendfeed. Twitter can act as a catalyst to conversation - indeed it has done here by addressing retweets! - but it's not a great forum for conversation itself.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Assuming the goal is to help distribute good content, could that be done without just baldly posting a RT and the original tweet? If I found good content you had posted, couldn't I write my own intro and send it along?
  • guruvan · 7 months ago
    @guykawasaki specifically recommended just this at one point. I do this often with links I'm resending.

    At other times, I'm retweeting because I like the quote from a person, and/or I want that person tobe recognized for the profound or beautiful thing they said (with no link).
  • fogofeternity · 7 months ago
    Sure, and there are times where I'll add a comment to a RT, e.g. "Great piece, didn't agree with conclusion". But for many articles you want to give the title (or at least context) and I think it's reasonable to provide credit to the person who found it with an @. At that point there's limited space out of 140 characters to provide additional value with your own comment.

    There's definitely an argument for removing the RT chain from a tweet, i.e. "RT @xyz, RT @abc, RT@def blah blah" because then you're just taking up space by giving credit to multiple retweeters, but the article context and the original poster I think should be included in a tweet. If you have space for additional comment at that point then cool.
  • Dobromir Hadzhiev · 7 months ago
    iRobot call this BS
  • Chris Charabaruk · 7 months ago
    Funny, Twanalyst calls it spammy. Twitalyzer counts it (as well as @replies or in fact any tweet referring to another user, including retweets) as actual signal. These Twitter metrics tools all come from their own perspective of what Twitter should be like. And they're all right about it, and they're all wrong.

    These services are only as good as you trust them yourself to provide metrics. I trust Twitalyzer to measure me up, because it breaks down the results of my tweets more than the tweets themselves. Twanalyst is a toy compared to it.

    Louis, here's what Twitalyzer has to say about you. Much more interesting (and useful) don't you think?
  • John E. Bredehoft (Empoprises) · 7 months ago
    The statistics of Twitalyzer are useful, but perhaps not in the way that Twitalyzer expects. For example, my Twitalyzer statistics currently show a signal ratio of 85.3%, but that merely indicates to me that I'm posting many more links (generally blog post links auto-generated by FriendFeed) than true original content. In my case, I should be aiming to bring that signal ratio DOWN and engage in more true conversation.

    But, frankly, any service that claims that Gray's influence is only 6.4% and his generosity is 0.0% should be called into question...
  • Chris Charabaruk · 7 months ago
    Like I said, all these Twitter metrics services are only as good as you think they are. I questioned the usefulness of their counting of links toward signal value when I switched on FriendFeed support for pushing to Twitter. (Of course, since FriendFeed doesn't offer a resolution API for their short links, it'd be a bit difficult for them to filter accordingly, since some links are just pointers back to FriendFeed and some to actually referenced sites.)

    Of all the ones that give influence metrics based on Twitter, though, I've found Twitalyzer to do the best job. Not saying that it does good, just better than the others.
  • John E. Bredehoft (Empoprises) · 7 months ago
    And Twitalyzer defines precisely how they derive their statistics (here's their definition of signal-to-noise ratio), which allows you to evaluate what the scores mean and how they affect you.
  • Chris Charabaruk · 7 months ago
    Exactly why I find it the best.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Thanks John. I know you're quite loyal, and it's appreciated. :)
  • Piers Hollott · 7 months ago
    From where I'm sitting, this article came off as a little preachy and arrogant. I agree that begging to retweet is unclassy, and I'd specifically not retweet someone who asked me to, on principle. However, I am pleased when someone live-tweets an event I am unable to attend, and I retweet happily and frequently. It's a triple vector, connecting one person to another, and making that relationship public, with a link to qualify it. As far I am concerned, this sort of semantic triple is fundamental to the semantic web, and should be encouraged, in any form. Feel free to retweet.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    If I get one article out of a hundred saying I'm arrogant, then those are pretty good odds, but that's hopefully the exception rather than the rule. I'm trying to help push people to think about what they do and how it could be interpreted.
  • Jeff · 7 months ago
    re-tweeting has gotten out of hand!
  • Nicholas James · 7 months ago
    That service sucks: its identifying alot of users I tested as Robots.
  • Keith · 7 months ago
    I think there is value in the concept of RT but I agree its lazy. I've opted for re-writing the tweet in my words and then giving attribution by adding via @user to the end. Best of both worlds
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Agree that this is the way to go. Perfect.
  • Jesse Newhart · 7 months ago
    First of all the fact that the service called you spammy shows it's a piece of crap. I do tweet links a lot, many times I even tweet your links Louis :) Often times these links get retweeted. I also will retweet good links that come my way. I look at the RT as Twitter's version of a Digg or a Stumble. That being said many people could be more discriminating when retweeting.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Jesse, I've seen you tweet my links, and it's quite effective when you do that. You have a loyal audience.
  • guruvan · 7 months ago
    Interesting. I use a "Like" on FriendFeed the same way I use a retweet (and my Likes post to twitter) I find the incessant retweeting just as Twanalyst does: "parrot-like" . I find incessant link posting (your own or not) spammy (or leaning towards it) I find incessant small talk kinda lame too. Chris has a point about Twitalyzer. That does a great job of analyzing the whole of your tweet profile, and more importantly explaining how their stats are derived.

    I retweet and Like things I find useful, funny, or just wonderful to see. I try to be conversational, but not overly so (I err on this sometimes). I appreciate people retweeting my links and info as well. Constant begging for RTs is obnoxious (I know one tweep who puts Pls RT on almost every tweet).

    If I have a statement or link that is important to my followers I ask them to RT it. I did this during the worm episode.

    It's unfortunate, that like the followfriday, retweeting has become a contest. "Who is at the top of the retweetis or retweetradar"

    Somewhere there is a happy middle ground.

    But no amount of statistical, numerical analysis is going to tell whether you're a good Twitter citizen. The reaction of your followers and others to your tweets will tell you this.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    We both know that if something can be measured, it will be. How many followers? How many tweets? How many retweets? Unless we lose the ability to count, it will always happen.
  • guruvan · 7 months ago
    Yes, it will be measured.

    Hopefully people will remember the words of Mark Twain: There are 3 kinds of lies in this world Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
  • Sheamus · 7 months ago
    That's a Benjamin Disraeli quote; Twain, amusingly, re-tweeted it. ;)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,...
  • guruvan · 7 months ago
    Totally learn something every day ;) Even from a retweet heh.
  • Louis Gray · 7 months ago
    Jesse, you have some of the most loyal retweeters. I've seen it! Good job.
  • Ari Herzog · 7 months ago
    You're a robot. I'm a celebrity. http://twanalyst.com/status.php?search=ariherzog I have no idea what that means. They both sound silly.
  • Danny Brown · 7 months ago
    You don't take into account the fact that retweeting is always a new tweet to someone. It's only old news to people who've already read it. With a reported 19 million users of the service now, there's an awful lot of people who see these retweets as a new piece of information.

    Besides, not everyone blogs, Louis, and Twitter offers a great way to recommend other work.

    Say everyone ssuddenly stopped tweeting about Louisgray.com - would you still be against retweeting?
  • RKW · 7 months ago
    I'll retweet something if it makes me laugh or I think the people connected to me would be interested in it. I don't automatically retweet something simply because I see "please RT" scroll by (I mostly use Seesmic Desktop, so stuff scrolls.)

    Like this comment, I've got the option to put it out there on Twitter, but who cares about my retweet habits? Well, someone might but I don't care to share it. I think that's the question, "Do I have any urge to share this with the people who follow me?"

    I think Twanalysis is hilarious, but they say my tweeting is "is already tip-top! No improvements needed": http://twanalyst.com/status.php?search=ReginaWa... , so, um of course I'm digging them ;)
  • Rahsheen · 7 months ago
    If I'm quoting what someone said in a tweet, then that's a RT. If someone posts a link and I liked it, I'll probably just post it again. Do I have to give the original person credit in my tweet? I don't think so. I don't HAVE to. They didn't write the content, did they? If they did, I hope they linked their Twitter from their blog.

    It sounds nice to give someone credit for pointing you to a resource and it's probably a useful metric if it was reliable at all, but it's kinda like citing the library as a source in addition to the book you got the information from. I file this need to give an individual credit via RT right along with people who feel they have to reciprocate everything.

    Are you sharing things because you felt the information was good, or are you just trying to leverage someone else's content for your own benefit?
  • Rick Bucich · 7 months ago
    I see it as a thumbs-up for someone else's work; a way to recognize a good post or thought that might be of value to a wider audience. No sense putting it in my own words...because they aren't, especially if it is a topic for which I have no credible level of first-hand knowledge.

    Another instance was the recent passing of a blogger's daughter Maddie. I felt that it would be in bad taste to post anything original since I did not know the family. Since they were trying to raise funds for the March of Dimes, re-tweeting donation requests was my way of spreading the word. Their goal was $3000 and last I saw exceeded $33,000. #maddie
  • Stan · 7 months ago
    Strange that you would simultaneously complain about retweeting as breaking the conversational model of Twitter while focusing on a model which eschews conversation for the dispersal of links.

    At any rate, I'd agree that asking for retweets is crass. Grumping about others doing it? I suppose it's about on par with people complaining about those who only seem to post links.
  • donfuxx · 7 months ago
    I think retweeting is not always lazy! Sometimes somebody really twitters something amazing (doesn´t happen too often, unfortunately) and in this case I think the best way is to RT to give "discoverer" the credits he deserves.
  • .LAG · 7 months ago
    I think there's great value in re-tweeting. I don't think it's lazy if thought is given in "curating" the posts you re-tweet. Given that you only have 140 characters (less really if you account for leaving some space for commentary) I think sharing tweet and wrapping, hopefully, an insightful comment around it is quite useful. What I disgree with is people pressuring others by explicity asking for something to be re-tweeted. Let the reader decide if the post has pass-along value.
  • geechee_girl · 7 months ago
    I tend to use RT to share things I find valuable. I rarely retweet blog posts, though it does happen if I see value there. I am more likely to do what I did tonight (I retweeted a tweet from Mona Numura, who has a friend seeking work - I wanted to expose her request to my network). If the person asks me for a retweet, or has "Please RT" or similar on the tweet i tend to ignore it more often than not. That also often keeps me from even clicking their link at all.
  • CathleenRitt · 7 months ago
    I love you!!!! I created this list of my tweets mocking retweets http://is.gd/uBns
  • Paisano® · 7 months ago
    I've been struggling with this myself lately. I've gotten tired of seeing tons of retweets in my stream to stuff I've already read before. I made the decision recently to stop retweeting the most popular stuff that most people read such as techcrunch and mashable (yea I know, I write for them but they have no problems getting RT, trust me!).
    I don't want to contribute to the noise pollution on twitter and want to make every tweet count. Yes, this means not sharing something that would be NEW to those few that don't subscribe to those popular blogs but so be it. I think overall it's a good move to make.
    However, I will still share stories and posts to the less popular and more obscure blogs like this one, no offense, Louis! I mean in relationship to the general public and most of my followers.
    I will also share pieces from other lesser known resources... hopefully sharing valuable information that MOST, not all, people would never have found otherwise or not until the big blogs catch wind of it. I enjoy breaking news and info before the larger slower outfits do.

    Thanks for the food for thought. Like you said, there's no one right way to do this stuff but it doesn't hurt to share our ideas on possible methods that might contribute more to the community rather than merely serve ourselves better.

    Pai
  • Sheamus · 7 months ago
    Louis, I enjoyed your thoughts but fundamentally disagree. ;) However, rather than clogging up your comments stream with a huge post, which is what I started to do, I've written an open rebuttal on my blog, which you might like to read: "In Defense Of The Re-Tweet". Be interested in your comments. Thanks.
  • Matt Searles · 7 months ago
    If I see something interesting, I re tweet it.. I try and be generous about it, but its always to the question of "does this have value in relationship to the values I'm trying to keep at the core of what I'm doing," does it have value to my network? My network is.. well its not like I'm purely connected to one group.. like its not all marketers.. so the guys trying to work out the future of the music business.. might find value from something a marketer was sharing.. a marketer getting into creating videos as a part of whatever.. might find value in finding out about something to do with sound or video that might help with production values.. So I don't think I'm usually a part of the echo chamber in how I re tweet.. I see it like innovation comes from a synthesis of disparate stuff.. and so I'm just synthesizing.

    So I don't really see it as lazy.. I see it as curation..