I will never forget the response I got from several recruiters and hiring managers I met when I was a newly minted Stanford graduate. More than one person looked me up and down and made a comment like, "I applied there. They rejected me."
Yes, many people believe that people with elite degrees have proven their ability to compete; others see that piece of paper and leap to "rich kid", "snob", or "entitled person who needs to be knocked down a few pegs."
Elite universities are just another example of a successful brand. Many, many grads of non-elite skills are similarly talented and prepared for work.
So, does that mean we cannot attain reputation from starting from nothing and working towards building a successful company, did Bill Gates and Richard Branson for exzample consider the implications of lack of experience before they took the jump to the entreprenurial route. I am also a college student in the UK, and plan to not attend college (US), university (UK) and take the jump early on in life to becoming an entrepreneur, it something I feel sooo ready for, and despite all advice against doing it I am going on with it!!
I feel people will respect you much more as a person for working on a new startup without any leverage from education, it's a joke that people think you HAVE to go to college to be recognized, people excel in different ways, and I think to a certain extent experience is overrated, as long as you have the pure determination and ability to graft hard I reckon you can go anywhere you want to, nothing should stop young people following what they want to do, when they want to do it!!!
robdiana
· 7 months ago
Josh,
It was not meant as "if you don't go to college you can't build a reputation". College/Uni gives you instant reputation, just based on a piece of paper. Bill Gates, and any others, are definitely the exception to the rule. This fact is sad, but also very true. Previous to the past few years, it was near impossible to build reputation without work experience. The internet is changing that a little, as startups and social media give you more exposure than ever. However, there are a lot of people (including Google) that still look for a degree. As with many things, reputation is what you make it.
Josh Chandler
· 7 months ago
And why can''t we dispose of these ridiculous preconceptions about the importance of a piece of paper, if the web is building out to being an open conversation, I feel we should respect every entrepreneur's dreams in the same way, the reliance on choosing our own destiny lies with our morales, decisions and impact on the business world, I think we should try to associate ourselves as reptuable people, with good track records and should have a fighting chance to go for what we want in life, regardless of educational status!
robdiana
· 7 months ago
Josh,
I agree with you, but I can not speak for the industry as a whole. There are a lot of people that still believe the degree is immensely important for your job. That is not what I have found to be true, but some people still do.
Josh Chandler
· 7 months ago
But, wait, based on YOUR article, I feel you agree with the complete opposite of what I said, you think reputation in an industry is needed! To start a conversation and then go against your main point is shambolic, you speak very fairly, and in favour of a good reputation being able to get you places, and I fully respect your decision, I have also just made a blog post about this to reaffirm my beliefs about the young entrepreneur, and being able to make the fair choice in life check it out at:
I was saying that I felt a degree should not be necessary, but too many people in the industry feel they are. Reputation is very important. Also, my post is more of a commentary on the state of the industry than purely my opinion, but I can understand some of the confusion.
Thomas Power
· 7 months ago
brilliant LG as ever
Rob Diana
· 7 months ago
Thanks Thomas, regardless of where the praise was directed I will still take it.
JamesFuller
· 7 months ago
College isn't always the best choice, while I agree it's a very good choice sometimes circumstances require that you just get out and start running and building a reputation for yourself. I got lucky and noticed the things that people my age weren't concerned about, I figured out how to manage my money, learned responsibility not just for myself but for my friends, and also saw the economy heading over the cliff last year. These things plus the extraordinary event of my back going out the night before exams, resulting in me having grades that wouldn't allow me to keep my scholarships, meant I had to get moving and find a job as soon as possible to pay off the resulting debt from school and to also get my life back on track.
I might go back but as it stands I refuse to sign my life away to a system that doesn't have a valuable return beside job security anymore. I'll rely on my reputation, with the people I met in that 1 year and also all the people I interact with in my various jobs. Reputation, I feel is superior to a degree, but as you said college is a great place to build it.
robdiana
· 7 months ago
James,
That is correct, college is not always the best choice for everyone. My wife could not afford college initially, but eventually got her degree at night as she was changing careers. Your case (and I hope your back is OK), is also a little different in that your physical situation has changed the scenario. It is very rare for advice to apply to every situation, so you have to look at your situation and see what is best. However, if you ask for people's opinions, then be prepared to hear things you did not want to hear.
JamesFuller
· 7 months ago
Rob,
Absolutely, you have to be willing to accept peoples opinions and learn not to argue to much, because generally you're not going to change their perspective. I'll push back a little but after 2-3 rounds I give up and reflect on their opinion.
And I'll say that most people should go to college but they need to find a way to work it into their budget and time schedule. It's not something that you're going to look back on and regret having the degree. The only regret you might have from college is not being more fiscally responsible in doing so.
Thanks for the concern about my back, as of right now with excercise it's ok. Unfortunately, it's caused by a fractured disc and probably in about 10 years I'll have to get some a disc fusion. For now I'm doing fine.
Kevin Whalen
· 7 months ago
Simple question. Is one more likely to reach there goals with or without a College education/degree? Rob mentions one can't even get there foot in the door at Google without one (I imagine they see it as more than a piece of paper). So how many opportunities will you be barred from with not having a College education? Regardless of how much potential you may have. In baseball you can have great speed around the bases, but if you can't hit the ball and get on base, that speed means nothing.
Louis Gray
· 7 months ago
You know, I tried, Rob. :) Thomas - Rob is a solid writer and has good ideas.
Daniel Brusilovsky
· 7 months ago
Time will only tell on what will happen in the future... :)
ChangeForge | Ken Stewart
· 7 months ago
Rob, an interesting observation regarding influence as currency. Only a small few can claim such a power as to convert / channel their ability to beguile and exert influence into true and recognizable gain. I enjoyed the reading very much.
maverickmath
· 7 months ago
There's a whole literature on reputation systems out there. A good reputation system should incentivize people to obtain and reveal estimates of "content" quality. It should also aggregate these estimates to establish content reputation in a way that counters strategic manipulation or uncertainty. Current analyses suggest that as the quality of information improves or the cost of information acquisition decreases (e.g., via social media participation), reputation assessments become increasingly robust to manipulation/uncertainty.
Why go to college anymore? MIT already offers plenty of educational material from Open Courseware, iTunes University does something similar, and you have all the means freely available for showing your skills, knowledge and above all your attitude. Today more than ever before, it’s more easily possible to achieve great things without traditional schooling. Not only are the free resources getting better and better, school is (IMHO) getting worse and worse.
Rod Claar
· 7 months ago
Thanks Rob, I really believe that you are 100% correct. The only thing new is the speed that reputations travel today!
datadirt
· 7 months ago
Wow, that is one long discussion on FF. Besides the points you made there is one thing about ff which really dazzles me: the more of "walled garden" Facebook becomes, the more interesting discussions take place on ff.
Robi Ganguly
· 7 months ago
Solid post with a good point: your reputation matters and these days, how you manage it is different than it was managed in the past.
However, I would add a couple things: 1) Reputation has always been important and will always be important. When you say that the area of importance has changed, you don't really follow up on that. I think what you were trying to get to is that the management of your reputation is more active and perhaps more "short-term", in that you can get in and change/create it on a daily basis. 2) Reputation being worth as much as revenue doesn't make a lot of sense. A strong reputation is valuable, yes, but isn't it the INFLUENCE that you wield as a result of your reputation the "currency"? Here's what I mean: having a reputation as a person who complains all the time and doesn't do anything isn't valuable. Why? Because you can't use that reputation to influence people to go do something. Your point about FriendFeed and Paul is actually that he wields INFLUENCE as a result of his reputation, isn't it?
All Comments
Yes, many people believe that people with elite degrees have proven their ability to compete; others see that piece of paper and leap to "rich kid", "snob", or "entitled person who needs to be knocked down a few pegs."
Elite universities are just another example of a successful brand. Many, many grads of non-elite skills are similarly talented and prepared for work.
I feel people will respect you much more as a person for working on a new startup without any leverage from education, it's a joke that people think you HAVE to go to college to be recognized, people excel in different ways, and I think to a certain extent experience is overrated, as long as you have the pure determination and ability to graft hard I reckon you can go anywhere you want to, nothing should stop young people following what they want to do, when they want to do it!!!
It was not meant as "if you don't go to college you can't build a reputation". College/Uni gives you instant reputation, just based on a piece of paper. Bill Gates, and any others, are definitely the exception to the rule. This fact is sad, but also very true. Previous to the past few years, it was near impossible to build reputation without work experience. The internet is changing that a little, as startups and social media give you more exposure than ever. However, there are a lot of people (including Google) that still look for a degree. As with many things, reputation is what you make it.
I agree with you, but I can not speak for the industry as a whole. There are a lot of people that still believe the degree is immensely important for your job. That is not what I have found to be true, but some people still do.
http://www.joshchandlerblog.com/2009/05/follow-...
Thanks :)
I was saying that I felt a degree should not be necessary, but too many people in the industry feel they are. Reputation is very important. Also, my post is more of a commentary on the state of the industry than purely my opinion, but I can understand some of the confusion.
I might go back but as it stands I refuse to sign my life away to a system that doesn't have a valuable return beside job security anymore. I'll rely on my reputation, with the people I met in that 1 year and also all the people I interact with in my various jobs. Reputation, I feel is superior to a degree, but as you said college is a great place to build it.
That is correct, college is not always the best choice for everyone. My wife could not afford college initially, but eventually got her degree at night as she was changing careers. Your case (and I hope your back is OK), is also a little different in that your physical situation has changed the scenario. It is very rare for advice to apply to every situation, so you have to look at your situation and see what is best. However, if you ask for people's opinions, then be prepared to hear things you did not want to hear.
Absolutely, you have to be willing to accept peoples opinions and learn not to argue to much, because generally you're not going to change their perspective. I'll push back a little but after 2-3 rounds I give up and reflect on their opinion.
And I'll say that most people should go to college but they need to find a way to work it into their budget and time schedule. It's not something that you're going to look back on and regret having the degree. The only regret you might have from college is not being more fiscally responsible in doing so.
Thanks for the concern about my back, as of right now with excercise it's ok. Unfortunately, it's caused by a fractured disc and probably in about 10 years I'll have to get some a disc fusion. For now I'm doing fine.
Why go to college anymore? MIT already offers plenty of educational material from Open Courseware, iTunes University does something similar, and you have all the means freely available for showing your skills, knowledge and above all your attitude. Today more than ever before, it’s more easily possible to achieve great things without traditional schooling. Not only are the free resources getting better and better, school is (IMHO) getting worse and worse.
However, I would add a couple things:
1) Reputation has always been important and will always be important. When you say that the area of importance has changed, you don't really follow up on that. I think what you were trying to get to is that the management of your reputation is more active and perhaps more "short-term", in that you can get in and change/create it on a daily basis.
2) Reputation being worth as much as revenue doesn't make a lot of sense. A strong reputation is valuable, yes, but isn't it the INFLUENCE that you wield as a result of your reputation the "currency"? Here's what I mean: having a reputation as a person who complains all the time and doesn't do anything isn't valuable. Why? Because you can't use that reputation to influence people to go do something. Your point about FriendFeed and Paul is actually that he wields INFLUENCE as a result of his reputation, isn't it?
Good thinking here, enjoyed the post!