DISQUS

nickhalstead · 1 year ago

Great post Louis, the one time we have asked for an Embargo you were very clear in how you work with companies and are happy to work within the boundaries set. I know embargoes get broken but I did not realize there was a culture of not naming-names. Is this perhaps because everyone thinks at some point they may break one and if they start naming names, they will get the same treatment?

Louis Gray · 1 year ago

Nick, I would assume that the reticence on some people's part to name names around those breaking embargoes is the same reason people don't "snitch". There must be some unwritten code of ethics or not bad-mouthing other bloggers/media. Also, if you start with an accusation, you'd have to make sure your own deck is clean and that you're ready to back it up.

Svetlana Gladkova · 1 year ago

Nick, as one of the bloggers quoted here for not naming names, I think I'll add my voice to Louis' answer here. True, first of all it is not really comfortable to feel that you are snitching. And we do have a code of ethics here, correct. But there's another side to it: the entire tech blogosphere is very small and everyone knows and follows each other. And do you think anyone wants to work among people that can think of you as your enemy? I don't think so and that's why I keep the names to myself. Actually when I am approached by startups with questions on the ideas for launch and they ask if they should send the news under embargo and what blogs they should avoid, I actually share what I know with them (and they appreciate it). But doing it publicly is a very different kind of thing that will most certainly hurt you in one way or another.

centernetworks · 1 year ago

Good post overall. I will have MUCH more on this when the time is right. And I have all of the communications when the embargoes are busted.

You missed an important point though. Embargoes are busted by the biggest sites many times because they know they can get away with it. Take x major blog, if your client goes to them this time and they bust the embargo, will they be mad? yes. will they go back to them next time with news? yes.

until the companies and pr firms stand up to the blogs and news outlets that bust embargoes, nothing will change. there is NO excuse for busting an embargo.

here's part of my take on busted embargoes:
http://www.centernetworks.com/my-take-on-embargoes

Louis Gray · 1 year ago

Allen, I'm sure you have examples of "the biggest sites" breaking an embargo, and yet being approached from clients again in the future. If I were to lay out every example of how embargoes can work well or can fail, this post no doubt would have been twice as long.

In my day job, I've never had a site break an embargo that I can remember. I've seen things incorrectly published, and one example where somebody took my raw notes and posted that as their story instead of doing an interview, which later got retracted, but I've yet to need to "stand up to a blog or news outlet" due to an embargo being broken.

Chris Brogan · 1 year ago

I'm glad that I'm not often a news guy. I don't care who gets something out first. I totally get it that it's important to the people who are running their site like a news platform. I'm just saying, hey, I'm really glad I just putter around.

Should bloggers call out the offenders? I dunno. What's to gain there? I'd let the burned PR companies decide whether or not to send more information to that source sooner or later. Why should bloggers poop on each other? (I mean, discounting the fact that it's fun.)

Louis Gray · 1 year ago

Chris, as fun as bloggers "pooping on each other" sounds, while I'm not calling for a verbal war, it's clear some people are very frustrated when they see it happen, and they're openly complaining about it. But it's like the meme, Photos or It Didn't Happen! If there's a legitimate beef, call it out, and keep a record.

For example, see how MG Siegler of ParisLemon is watching Ars Technica closely for following stories and parroting headlines. When it happens, he's called them on it. I'm not a fan of bickering, but I am a fan of best practices.

Chris Brogan · 1 year ago

That's so silly. My email sends autoresponses to Disqus? Sorry, Louis. (edited)

I don't disagree exactly, but what WOULD the best practice be? If you're the little guy, and someone comes along and scoops up your story and runs with it without a hat tip, at least, what SHOULD go next?

Cat · 1 year ago

I have noticed that the online news portals that often break embargoes are those that do not have a true editorial team chekcing through the press releases. Those at fault are the untrained technicians who are tasked with uploading comapny press releases and who have not been trained in what an embargo is.

A major embargoed product launch of one of our clients was broken in this way and when contacted, the news portal concerned seemed oblivious to the meaning of an embargo date. Suffice to say we have change our policy with sending embargoed news to online news portals, in that we no longer do due to the instant upload nature of many of these sites.

Embargo is great and well understand amongst the print world but online, it is far too difficult to manage effectively. Not everyone working on online news portals is media trained.

Matt Shaulis · 1 year ago

I think we all know who the "offending parties" are... and it's the same thing every time... this week is nothing new, this happens every year for the past 3 or 4 years and what nobody seems to be able to remember is that PR firms lie. They will give all those less popular sources the embargo and then tell "x major blog" that they can write early... then when they do, the PR firms tell the rest of the sources under embargo that "x major blog" broke the embargo (if PR told you the truth you would not write about their client, so they lie and you hit publish... works every time) ... so let's be sure to take stance with the first line of BS, and that is the PR firm... it's what they do, it's what they are good at, and it's what they are being paid for... So if another blogger "broke the embargo", odds are "they" were told "they" could because "they" are the most popular blog in the world for this type of thing... are we really going to make "them" defend themselves against the same line of crap yet again???

Adam Ostrow · 1 year ago

This is very true ... the line gets moved for certain blogs, which makes everyone else (bloggers and journalists anyhow) think an embargo was broken, when in reality, the PR person told them they could publish early.

I've also seen situations where the PR person actually tries to give everyone the same embargo time, only to have someone at the company go around them and tell a publisher to go ahead and print their story, which makes both the company and the PR firm look horribly unprofessional.

On the other hand, other times when embargoes are broken it's simply an honest mistake by the publisher. Overall, the issue is probably overblown and really only important to those of us that follow TechMeme, which, truth be told, doesn't really care that much if you publish 5 minutes before everyone else, it's about the source ranking and links.

Louis Gray · 1 year ago

Matt, I noted above that the practice of letting a big target go first is commonplace. Just today I got an e-mail from one site I'd otherwise be interested in covering who said I could write it up "after TechCrunch covered it". No surprise there, but it was very specific. So, you say, "we all know who the "offending parties" are...", but you don't say who they are, which puts you in the same camp of the people I described. If we know... then who are they?

Matt Shaulis · 1 year ago

If history is any indication then I am given to assume that people are, as usual, pissed off at TechCrunch for scooping them yet again... which gets real old. (possibly PaidContent as well) Especially when the *majority* of the people complaining are nowhere near the same league as TC... regardless of how much we/you may respect the people you mentioned above Marshall is the only person who is in any position to lay claim to the title of "TechCrunch competition" .... and his story was broken by mainstream media, not another blog... so there, now that the cat is finally out of the bag let's talk about why TC gets privileges over other blogs and what those blogs can do to rise to the level of authority that Mike has earned over the years. (Not saying the history of TC is squeaky clean or anything, but there is no arguing the fact that TC is the be all end all of Web 2.0 blogging. It just is.)

*P.S.: I should NOT have used the phrase "we all KNOW..." .. i should have said, "we are all thinking the same thing". Again, it's assumptive on my part but my assumptions tend to favor reality... so I went ahead and said it... TechCrunch is the only blog that is ever really able to whip so many people into such a frenzy anyway... lol. All it does is underscore the importance of what Mike has built. Not saying it's fair or right or anything (or that it's not)... just saying that's how it is.

UPDATE: P.S. Kudos for admitting "we still need it"... yesterday I was getting real annoyed at my twitter stream and the deluge of bloggers yammering on about the embargo (As though this "trend" is something new) ... they come off as less than professional... that's jsut my opinion...

Louis Gray · 1 year ago

Matt, to be 100% clear, when writing the post on breaking embargoes,
thinking of TechCrunch as the offender never crossed my mind. Though I
understand your point, I believe that their well-established
leadership position makes them more a candidate for services to give
them something first, before hitting other blogs, rather than having
them break any embargoes. Essentially, I don't believe they need to. So no, TC was not in my head, and that's not
what I was thinking.

This piece wasn't intended to present any examples where I'd been the
victim of a broken embargo. If it's happened to me, I'm not aware or
worked up about it. As you can guess, via e-mail and via Twitter
direct messages, others who are offended mention names, and to date,
I've never had TechCrunch come up.

Matt Shaulis · 1 year ago

i'm not surprised people mention names in email and private message but not in their public complaints... it simply enforces the immaturity of the whole debacle. But like you said before "pics or it didn't happen".. period. I am still convinced that no embargo was broken and a bigger more established leader (like TechCrunch, VentureBeat, PaidContent, ReadWriteWeb, GigaOM, etc.) got the scoop and the little guys (and gals) just can't take it... they get so overcome by jealousy that they go off. Why? Because that's what history tells us happens... why should this time be any different?

You said yourself that "In my day job, I've never had a site break an embargo that I can remember" ... so it's not as "common" as these complainers want us to believe... it's just not. The places that get the scoop have earned them.

Svetlana Gladkova · 1 year ago

Hm, Mat, as probably the only "gal" referenced, I guess I should point out that I am not frustrated because the bigger bloggers get the scoop (they deserve it, especially when companies give them the right to publish earlier themselves). What frustrates me is that these bloggers hurt the companies/services they cover and their readers as well because the readers can't access the service after reading about it. What's more, by the time the service is finally live, everyone might already forget about its existence after reading it initially. So it is just looks egoistical to break an embargo to hurt everyone else but your own blog - and this is frustrating.

Matt Shaulis · 1 year ago

only gal referenced in the post but certainly not the only gal intended to be covered in my little rant. ;)

furthermore, there are plenty of companies that plan it so that they are written about plenty before they ever launch so I don't buy the whole "hurts the readers". that might be your personal view but it's not held near and dear in this industry... It might boil down to hurting companies/services but again, because nobody is telling the whole tale, i'm still not convinced that any embargo was broken (intentionally), so I don't swallow that pill either.

I'm glad that my opinion has generated so much feedback, but all I was trying to originally say was that beyond the facts that Louis laid down nicely in the blog post, some PR companies *lie* to bloggers who don't get the scoop (not trick, not misinform, not half truth... bold faced *LIE*)... and possibly unwisely advise their clients to lie to those same bloggers as well if they hope of receiving coverage from more than one blog... and that 9 times out of 10 that is what has happened when everyone thinks an "embargo has been broken"... (the other 1 time it was a misunderstanding and the publisher accidentally takes the story live before it's time... hehehe)

Svetlana Gladkova · 1 year ago

Relieved I was not the only target of your "gals".

And true, we may very well be lied to because what PR firms need is results (in terms of coverage), not the ideal handling of the situation and making all the media people happy. But this basically means that we will never see any actions to prevent embargoes broken early from PR professionals and this is probably the only way it could work at all. And thus we will continue grudging about embargoes again and again.

Jesse Stay · 1 year ago

Great article, Louis - I just wish I was prominent enough to be given an embargo ;) I'm small enough right now I don't know if I'd have any issue calling people out on breaking one, but then again, I've never been in that situation. My focus also isn't on blogging - it's on consulting and entrepreneurship. Where blogging is a side thing I guess I just don't have as much to lose. Maybe that's a bad attitude?

Matt Shaulis · 1 year ago

I think it's a great attitude to have... even if your primary gig was blogging it's a great attitude to have. ;)