I read the story...hmmm. What exactly is proper response? Letter from Steve Jobs makes it better? The fact is the couple was not seriously injured. Maybe Free apple products for life?
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
I think the issue is less about what one would receive in material goods, but more a simple apology and extended good will. When one starts demanding products in exchange for hardship, it may as well be a lawsuit with another name.
andyconnell
· 10 months ago
I'd like to agree with you, but I find that I doesn't.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Hmmmm not sure I understand your comment.
andyconnell
· 10 months ago
Who 'do' they think they 'are'?
Who 'does' he/she think he/she 'is'?
Why does I care about stuff like this? Who know?..
Aaron Brazell
· 10 months ago
Touché :-)
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
You understood that comment...? I STILL don't get it, Aaron... :(
Aaron Brazell
· 10 months ago
He was harassing you for your grammar. Apple is an incorporated entity, therefore singular. The title should be, "Who does Apple Think It Is". ;)
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
The headline, as always, is my fault. I actually changed it a tad from what Mona submitted. She had it more like, "Who Do You Think You Are, Apple?!" The fault is with me.
Aaron Brazell
· 10 months ago
It happens. But I think you meant, "The fault is mine." :-p /runs
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
As Erin says, #suckit. :-)
Geoff Schultz
· 10 months ago
eh, a nice pair of laptops at best. I mean it's tempered glass for starters very little risk of any serious injury. It's not like an inappropriately stocked television fell on these people, referring to an incident last year at a Best Buy.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
The LEAST Apple could've done was issue an apology. It reflects bad on the company. Period.
David HC Soul
· 10 months ago
Three words: "We are sorry" - that's all it takes, if sincere, in almost any case where there has not been substantial loss or hurt. Anything else is really just to assuage any feelings of guilt, anything less is evidence the company is just plain wrong headed when it comes to customer relations.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Common courtesy and a little decency. Apple's customer service is seriously appalling.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
The best guess I can give in defense of Apple here is the sheer volume of customers they have. Running a world-class business is tough work. The "I am sorry" or outreach is critical, but I get how large companies can turn bureaucratic, so if one guy doesn't own it, they can consider their part done and move on.
Pokai
· 10 months ago
Regarding Apple, I'm more concerned about Steve Jobs health. Not in the tabloid way of what is wrong with him...but more in the fact that I hope he gets better.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
I agree but the company needs to go on without him and they are definitely not moving in the right direction.
Tamar Weinberg
· 10 months ago
Curious - what are the email addresses of Katie Cotton and Ron Johnston? I've been trying to get in touch with Steve Jobs for months via sjobs@apple.com and nobody responds to emails (if only to say "thanks, we appreciate your concerns"), so I'd love to include the other two individuals on my correspondence.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Tamar you are so funny. I have no idea, since I got this from Giz. hahahha
Tamar Weinberg
· 10 months ago
I saw it on Giz too, but they should be updating these email addresses!!
Bottom line: sjobs@apple.com's mail handling team sucks.
jeffdoug
· 10 months ago
I'm guessing with a little more press like this, we'll see more of a response from them. Pretty crappy that it takes that much to get them to do something.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
I LOVE Apple - well their products but customer service wise they seriously fail. I don't understand what makes it OK to not even issue an apology. Disgusting.
feint
· 10 months ago
staff did apologise....but what you are saying is Apple is responsible for high winds! Or that they should stop using glass. This article is worse than a something in a tabloid magazine
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Apple is responsible for what happens in the stores. Period.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
Mona, no they aren't. If a maniac walks into one of their stores with a knife and stabs somebody, is Apple responsible for the crime? Let's get our heads on straight here.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Legally, yes they are. It is on their property. But that's not the point. Point is, something terrible happened, things happen. Preserve their brand and rectify the situation. Is one e-mail that hard?
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Anthony, the difference with your scenario is not that an individual in the stores did something, but instead that the structure of the store failed. For example, consider if the big K from KMart landed on you because it got hit by a big piece of hail. Would KMart be liable? Yes, because the K should have been more reinforced. The couple was impacted not by the wind itself, but by a design element of the store.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
Sorry, but your collective lack of legal knowledge is painfully evident. "Legally," Mona, regardless of your confidence, you're quite mistaken. A finding of negligence requires a departure from what a reasonably prudent person/organization would do under similar circumstances. Thus, proof that a reasonable person/organization could and would have foreseen the damages or injury, and taken action to prevent it, is needed to establish legal responsibility.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Which means if proof was provided, they will be responsible. Thus, legally, yes they are.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Apple is not responsible for high winds. But they are responsible for how their brand and company are perceived, and if the situation calls for common sense and courtesy, use it.
holdenpage
· 10 months ago
Yes they are, they must adjust there store designs according to the area...
I live in the midwest and high speed winds during the winter are NOT uncommon, if they wanted to sue apple for a few 100,000 they would've won.
feint
· 10 months ago
Apple shouldn't of done anything. Its not Apple's fault.....stuff happens in life and unfortunately people (like yourself) are always trying to blame someone. Apple staff apologised and that was enough.
If I trip over an uneven bit of ground I don't expect an apology from the local council or goverment let alone the president of the United States.
This article is as disgusting as people talking about Steve Jobs Health records.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Are you serious? Or a delusional fan boy? Of course it is Apple's fault. What happened to them was not something Apple could've predicted but to just have the claims department contact them to make sure they won't sue is appalling. Apple needs to get off their high horse and recognize that it's the customers that are keeping them afloat. For them to not even acknowledge the latter and issue an apology is disgusting.
Tripping over an uneven ground and getting showered by a glass explosion are two very different things.
It's fanboys like you that are excusing Apple's unacceptable methods, which will be their greatest downfall when Steve steps down.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
It's their fault, Mona, really? They should have told the Wind Gods to not blow that way? Wow.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Considering Kansas is known for strong winds, yes, in theory, Apple should've factored that in when designing. Big picture, Anthony - quit dwellign on the small stuff.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Anthony, I mentioned it above. The issue is not that there was wind, but that the Apple Store itself lost its structural integrity due to nature. If you are in an Apple Store in Palo Alto, and a Cinema Display falls on you during an earthquake because it wasn't reinforced, Apple is liable. Apple should have aggressively reached out and been compassionate.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
And I answered above - but you're both mistaken. You're conflating "should have" with legal responsibility. Your illustration of a cinema display falling on someone depends on whether it was negligent and foreseeable, as described above. I'm not dwelling on the small stuff, Mona, I'm just asserting that you are mistaken about Apple's legal responsibility here.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Given Leaword Kansas' weather conditions as illustrated by this graph: http://pics2.city-data.com/w4/wnd8200.png, it is Apple's responsibility to ensure the store is weather proof. But again, I am not here to argue legal issues. I am talking about the principle and concept of customer service 101.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
It is in theory Apple's fault because they should have fitted the store for the climate of the area. Just like when you earthquake proof things in California, you prepare for Mother Nature's work elsewhere.
That said, Mona will be gently not labeling Anthony a delusional fanboy any more. :-) Maybe it hits me too close to home.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
And - as I said in my first comment, Mona IS absolutely right that they handled this clumsily. And I love you, Mona, but the breathless suggestion of Apple's legal responsibility and needing to do a press release is kinda, well, absurd.
feint
· 10 months ago
what....did someone just call me an Apple Fanboy? Im not a fanboy....im typing on a pc right now....I just think you are blowing up a situation which we all don't know a lot about. If I was in any store and something fell on me due to "an act of God", I wouldn't sue......And let also not forget Apple did apologise (something which you keep saying didn't happen).
Stop insulting me and look at the moral side to this which clearly shows this was something that happens in life....enough said.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
My prior note was referring to Anthony Citrano. There are two Anthonys in this thread, and name calling is off the table.
Collin
· 10 months ago
How is this Apple's fault in ANY way? What makes me sick is that these people think deserve some kind of special treatment because they didn't file a frivolous lawsuit.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Special treatment? Since when has an apology been special treatment? It's called manners, common courtesy, and DECENCY.
Anthony Feint
· 10 months ago
this is absolutely bullshit. How is ths Apple's fault in any way shape or form. If I were you Louis I would be removing this article and considering finding better bloggers
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Whoa looks like I hit a fanboy nerve. Hey, guess what? I'M GONNA BOOTCAMP WINDOWS ON MY MAC!
feint
· 10 months ago
i use Windows
awilensky
· 10 months ago
If I was Apple's risk mitigation officer, I would have sent Mom and Dad a pair of 8 core Mac Pros with matching Cinema displays. Compared to a lawsuit? Priceless.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Or something, anything to acknowledge what happened. Customer service goes a long way. :)
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Anthony, we have some great bloggers on the site. Mona is absolutely entitled to her opinion and I'm glad she's on the team.
andyconnell
· 10 months ago
I don't think anybody is disputing Mona's right to her opinion, but this is a poor piece, followed by a lazy and demeaning resort to the 'fanboy' argument, which I'd honestly and fervently hoped we'd all grown out of by now.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Andy, above I did ask her not to refer to Anthony as a fanboy, so yes, that was addressed. As for it being a poor piece, it is a topic broached by Gizmodo, thought of as one of the top gadget blogs out there.
I believe each of the writers on the site bring something unique to the table, and Mona brings energy and her own insight to pieces like this. You can't doubt her opinions are true, and not manufactured. I think the point that Apple could have been in much worse shape had the couple been litigious is real, and I also believe Apple could have been more in tune with the option for customer service. But I also said they have such a large customer base, that mistakes like this are bound to happen.
Anthony Citrano
· 10 months ago
The "sequence" of their response was clumsy (i.e. the first and only person heard from was legal) but the suggestion that they should have issued a press release is more than a little silly. Simply put, there is no fault nor negligence here by Apple. But the first thing they should have done was had a normal non-legal person call and check on them and tell them they were mortified and sorry that it happened. But the idea that Apple somehow owes them something is equally silly.
holdenpage
· 10 months ago
It IS apple's fault.
They did not construct there building according to the climate.
Sarah Vela
· 10 months ago
she's entitled to her opinion but I don't care for her defensive attitude in the comments. don't ask if you're overreacting and then bristle when people say you are!
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Anthony - a glass door shattered on them and they were rained by glass. They are at least entitled to acknowledgement BY Apple, since the son took the time to e-mail corporate. They are a Fortune 500 company with thousands of employees. Someone in the office need to take the time to address and acknowledge the situation - not just call to ensure they weren't going to sue. It's customer service 101, better business practice.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Anthony, I agree no press release should have been sent. What I suggested in the comments is that Apple is liable in that the store's structural integrity failed. If the K from KMart fell on you during a California earthquake, KMart would be liable. I don't see it as "what they are owed", but what would have made good customer relations instead.
Louis Gray
· 10 months ago
Sarah, you have a point on bristling. Mona and I have different personalities, and she's very well liked here and on her blog, so I try not to tone her down, but instead to be herself.
Ken Sheppardson
· 10 months ago
My guess would be that these days in a situation like this you really can't have anybody other than legal talk to them, particularly if the legal folks feel there's some liability, or there's any hint at all somebody's thinking about litigation.
idnan
· 10 months ago
why don't the apologies from store staff count, again?
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Sarah - Everyone is entitled to their opinions, just like I am - and I am more than willing and able to effectively and rationally discuss. But communication is a two way street. If someone comes at me rude from the get go, I will bristle. ;)
Pokai
· 10 months ago
thanks ken for clarifying. given that this was even publicized further leads me to believe apple did the right thing in limited response. i'm shocked that louis and mona think this is blog worthy.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Ken - someone else mentioned that on a post in my feed. Truth is, I am a huge Apple fan and want to see them succeed. We see many companies thriving on customer service and with the instability and uncertainty of the economy - and especially technology, I would have expected Apple or any corporation for that matter, to at least ensure customer service is on point.
Ken Sheppardson
· 10 months ago
Mona - It'd be great if we lived in a world where somebody from Apple could call and show some concern, compassion, and empathy without the risk that some attorney will turn around and say it's an admission of fault and/or liability. Unfortunately, we don't.
ScottBourne
· 10 months ago
It's Apple
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Ken - I hear you. Thanks for the input.
Pokai
· 10 months ago
In similar news, a gas station roof collapses due to ice. nobody killed. one person got cut on head. apology? read story here http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-204975
geechee_girl
· 10 months ago
An act of nature where no one was injured - no response required from Apple. Sillyness.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Seriously, Leslie? A Fortune 500 Company with thousands of employees and after the son reached out to the corporate office, yet it was only acknowledged by the claims department? It's bad business practice and customer service.
geechee_girl
· 10 months ago
Seriously. I'm not sure what the people expected, and I don't mean that antagonistically at all. Also not sure what the size of the company has to do with acts of nature? I'm surprised the claims department even called back, but I guess the one thing Apple is always proactive with is law suits *grin*. I guess it wouldn't have even occurred to me to write a letter in the first place for something that was wind related, unless I was writing to suggest they change the store design according to region due to possible future incidents. Would a reply have been nice and gained them brownie points? Oh, sure, absolutely. Should it be required or expected? I don't think so. I guess I just don't see the cause for outrage in this case.
geechee_girl
· 10 months ago
To add to that, for what it is worth, any apology by a company can be considered an admission of fault. In this case where Apple is clearly not at fault (act of nature) and no one was injured why would they open themselves to a lawsuit where it was obvious there was none coming? I get appalled at how apple handles legit claims like MacBook Pro damage under Apple Care warranties, but this? Not ringing my outrage or innapropriate bells at all.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
I hear you, as well as what everyone else is saying - but I am huge advocate for customer service, customer relations, and simply appreciating those that help corporations like Apple be who they are. I don't think Apple needed to acknowledge or thank them in any way for not filing a lawsuit, but at least something, anything to show they DO care about their customers.
It's just good business practice and reflects well for brand preservation, especially because of the recent PR nightmare events. ;) Thanks for your input (and for being able to discuss amicably!)
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
Uh, ireport is the same news source that spread false news Steve Jobs had a heart attack... :(
Ciaoenrico
· 10 months ago
A personal call from someone there certainly would have made everything come off better for Apple, but failing to do so only makes it look like they don't have someone doing on-the-spot public relations for them. I don't know that that's necessarily good or bad. After all, if the couple was okay, and they weren't going to sue, why exactly would Apple executives care?
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
It's more the principle - that they (the execs) should care. It only takes a few seconds out of someone's day to pick up the phone and say: "Thank you for being loyal customers." or "We appreciate you." or even "Thank you for taking the time to reach out." I am realistic and understand the execs probably receive thousands of emails a day. It just reflects really bad on the top execs, to not train their chain of command to at least filter or notify them of something as horrible as a glass door shattering on paying customers.
Will Higgins
· 10 months ago
It's not Apple's fault the glass door wasn't strong enough. The fact that the door completely shattered most likely means it was made from Tempered Glass, which is designed to shatter into bits that don't cause injury. It's used in automobiles and other places where people could get hurt.
While I'm sure it was pretty shocking to have a door explode in front of them, it didn't cause them any harm. I think it would be fair if Apple wrote them a short email/letter thanking them for shopping at their store and apologizing for the unfortunate incident. It would also be reasonable to give them a Gift Card or voucher or something, but not compulsory. Also, expecting Steve or the VP to reply is silly. Maybe the Store or Regional Manager would get involved.
Also, you have to realize that Apple may not have apologized immediately because that might classify as an admission of guilt if they were to sue, or something. Otherwise you'd have people standing in front of Apple glass doors waiting to be struck down.
Mona N.
· 10 months ago
"I think it would be fair if Apple wrote them a short email/letter thanking them for shopping at their store and apologizing for the unfortunate incident. It would also be reasonable to give them a Gift Card or voucher or something, but not compulsory." = bingo. "Also, expecting Steve or the VP to reply is silly. Maybe the Store or Regional Manager would get involved." = I agree with the Jobs part, but doesn't a retail executive's job entail overseeing retail operations?
marshal sandler
· 10 months ago
I think when you deal with Teche's these, are folks who have only been educated to talk to, machines not people !t is a fault in our educational system. The faulty glass is not an Apple Problem . The real problem is that a large firm could have with a few kind words resolved this problem! I agree with Mr Gray free merchandise is not way to resolve this problem ! This is a people issue about someone or a group of someone's who do not understand the human condition ! And of course If an executive had any brains should they should have called you, even though they are not responsible for Faulty Construction, you were guest in their house!
Chris Baskind
· 10 months ago
What a lot of drama. Yeah, Apple might be liable. No, they shouldn't have sent a letter, press release, or a nice iLife 09 boxed set. That would be world-class stupid, and I rather doubt Apple combs Special Education programs for its legal team.
This is a potential personal injury case. Apple will say nothing. Doesn't mean they're a bunch of bastards. I think the couple was classy for not suing, but unless they approach Apple offering to release them from liability in exchange for an apology (or change their mind about a lawsuit), this is the end of the matter. Hope Apple fixes that door.
moskowitz
· 10 months ago
lesson - where or who is the "mensch" ... then again, this seems to be a pervasive issue that exists on any number of layers/levels of society today ... integrity, accountability, caring about your fellow "person", et al. Mona, you are awesome for taking a stand!
btw, since when is everything viewed through the lens of legal liability?
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's 1978 Harvard Address (June 8, 1978) (excerpt):
"I have spent all my life under a Communist regime and I will tell you that a society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed. But a society with no other scale but the legal one is also less than worthy of man. A society based on the letter of the law and never reaching any higher fails to take advantage of the full range of human possibilities. The letter of the law is too cold and formal to have a beneficial influence on society. Whenever the tissue of life is woven of legalistic relationships, this creates an atmosphere of spiritual mediocrity that paralyzes man’s noblest impulses.
And it will be simply impossible to bear up to the trials of this threatening century with nothing but the supports of a legalistic structure.
The Direction of Freedom
Today’s Western society has revealed the inequality between the freedom for good deeds and the freedom for evil deeds. A statesman who wants to achieve something important and highly constructive for his country has to move cautiously and even timidly; thousands of hasty (and irresponsible) critics cling to him at all times; he is constantly rebuffed by parliament and the press. He has to prove that his every step is well-founded and absolutely flawless. Indeed, an outstanding, truly great person who has unusual and unexpected initiatives in mind does not get any chance to assert himself; dozens of traps will be set for him from the beginning. Thus mediocrity triumphs under the guise of democratic restraints."
Amen
dee
· 10 months ago
i couldn't get through the comments. Louis Gray and Mona N are being absurd. what business does the company President have with responding to accidents at the retail level? there was an apology and i suspect a zealous offer to help the couple by those immediately present, the retail staff. if you think you're entitled to more than that it's because you live in a lawsuit-frenzied country.
Adam
· 5 months ago
Ummm. ok, you love Apple? Need I remind you that Apple is a corporation, a legal entity. It's not a person. Would you expect a letter back if you wrote to Harry Potter?
Apple is a corporation, and if you feel like it owes you something, you sue it. It doesn't mean you need to stop loving it.
And on another note, the people behind Apple are a different story, and all I can say is you need to make sure to get to them in the correct way, and remember that again, they owe you nothing.
All Comments
Who 'does' he/she think he/she 'is'?
Why does I care about stuff like this? Who know?..
This is out of date: http://consumerist.com/5013056/reach-apple-exec...
Bottom line: sjobs@apple.com's mail handling team sucks.
in the stores did something, but instead that the structure of the
store failed. For example, consider if the big K from KMart landed on
you because it got hit by a big piece of hail. Would KMart be liable?
Yes, because the K should have been more reinforced. The couple was
impacted not by the wind itself, but by a design element of the store.
I live in the midwest and high speed winds during the winter are NOT uncommon, if they wanted to sue apple for a few 100,000 they would've won.
If I trip over an uneven bit of ground I don't expect an apology from the local council or goverment let alone the president of the United States.
This article is as disgusting as people talking about Steve Jobs Health records.
Tripping over an uneven ground and getting showered by a glass explosion are two very different things.
It's fanboys like you that are excusing Apple's unacceptable methods, which will be their greatest downfall when Steve steps down.
That said, Mona will be gently not labeling Anthony a delusional fanboy any more. :-) Maybe it hits me too close to home.
Stop insulting me and look at the moral side to this which clearly shows this was something that happens in life....enough said.
that was addressed. As for it being a poor piece, it is a topic
broached by Gizmodo, thought of as one of the top gadget blogs out
there.
I believe each of the writers on the site bring something unique to
the table, and Mona brings energy and her own insight to pieces like
this. You can't doubt her opinions are true, and not manufactured. I
think the point that Apple could have been in much worse shape had the
couple been litigious is real, and I also believe Apple could have
been more in tune with the option for customer service. But I also
said they have such a large customer base, that mistakes like this are
bound to happen.
They did not construct there building according to the climate.
It's just good business practice and reflects well for brand preservation, especially because of the recent PR nightmare events. ;) Thanks for your input (and for being able to discuss amicably!)
While I'm sure it was pretty shocking to have a door explode in front of them, it didn't cause them any harm. I think it would be fair if Apple wrote them a short email/letter thanking them for shopping at their store and apologizing for the unfortunate incident. It would also be reasonable to give them a Gift Card or voucher or something, but not compulsory. Also, expecting Steve or the VP to reply is silly. Maybe the Store or Regional Manager would get involved.
Also, you have to realize that Apple may not have apologized immediately because that might classify as an admission of guilt if they were to sue, or something. Otherwise you'd have people standing in front of Apple glass doors waiting to be struck down.
"Also, expecting Steve or the VP to reply is silly. Maybe the Store or Regional Manager would get involved." = I agree with the Jobs part, but doesn't a retail executive's job entail overseeing retail operations?
This is a potential personal injury case. Apple will say nothing. Doesn't mean they're a bunch of bastards. I think the couple was classy for not suing, but unless they approach Apple offering to release them from liability in exchange for an apology (or change their mind about a lawsuit), this is the end of the matter. Hope Apple fixes that door.
btw, since when is everything viewed through the lens of legal liability?
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's 1978 Harvard Address (June 8, 1978) (excerpt):
"I have spent all my life under a Communist regime and I will tell you that a society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed. But a society with no other scale but the legal one is also less than worthy of man. A society based on the letter of the law and never reaching any higher fails to take advantage of the full range of human possibilities. The letter of the law is too cold and formal to have a beneficial influence on society. Whenever the tissue of life is woven of legalistic relationships, this creates an atmosphere of spiritual mediocrity that paralyzes man’s noblest impulses.
And it will be simply impossible to bear up to the trials of this threatening century with nothing but the supports of a legalistic structure.
The Direction of Freedom
Today’s Western society has revealed the inequality between the freedom for good deeds and the freedom for evil deeds. A statesman who wants to achieve something important and highly constructive for his country has to move cautiously and even timidly; thousands of hasty (and irresponsible) critics cling to him at all times; he is constantly rebuffed by parliament and the press. He has to prove that his every step is well-founded and absolutely flawless. Indeed, an outstanding, truly great person who has unusual and unexpected initiatives in mind does not get any chance to assert himself; dozens of traps will be set for him from the beginning. Thus mediocrity triumphs under the guise of democratic restraints."
Amen
Apple is a corporation, and if you feel like it owes you something, you sue it. It doesn't mean you need to stop loving it.
And on another note, the people behind Apple are a different story, and all I can say is you need to make sure to get to them in the correct way, and remember that again, they owe you nothing.