DISQUS

louisgray.com: louisgray.com: Techmeme and TechCrunch's Detractors Prove It's Hard to be On Top

  • tonyhung · 1 year ago
    I think there's probably not enough being asked about Techmeme's algorithm.

    For a blog that's got almost zero links, and is almost 3 days old, there's almost no way an algorithm would *find* it, or attribute it as having any "importance", unless there were other factors at play -- perhaps human factors.

    In fact, the only thing that "points" to it at all is Louis "sharing" it via Friendfeed. According to Google, there aren't any inbound links to it all, in fact.
    http://www.google.com/search?as_lq=www.pixelshi...

    hmmmm .... ;)
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    As I don't have the algorithm in front of me, I can't say whether that's unusual or not, or outside the bounds. We tend to feel that Techmeme is influenced by external linking, and therefore, the lack of links suggests a post should not be included. But Gabe has said there are other influences, which we believe to be shared items on Google Reader or Twitter. Techmeme itself is a link blog, and it appears, at times, that some posts are hand-selected rather than automated, which in my opinion is fine. Should the author, Mona in this case, wait until she has achieved some level of critical mass to be included when her content is equal to that of others?
  • tonyhung · 1 year ago
    I have been watching Techmeme for a long time (long being 2 years), and I have to believe that its much more than inbound links. It either has to be other things like Google Reader shares or Friendfeed shares -- which would be interesting, as no other aggregator (that I know of) uses these kinds of metrics.

    The alternative is that Gabe is merely watching what other people are sharing, and adds them himself.

    As for Mona -- I think what she wants is a bit irrelevant to the topic at hand, because there are *many* posts in the blogosphere that have intrinsic "worth".

    Whether any of them get noticed -- and *how* they get noticed algorithmically -- is what is interesting. If its really an algorithm at all, that is, and not just astute bloggers sharing them or linking to them.

    :)
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    There are aggregators that use each of those, but none combined.

    1) RSSmeme and ReadBurner aggregate Google Reader shares (as does Feedheads)
    2) FriendFeedLinks aggregates FriendFeed shares.

    RSSmeme is leveraging the FriendFeed API, so in theory, it captures Google Reader shares and all FriendFeed shares.
  • Svetlana Gladkova · 1 year ago
    Excellent post Louis and a very reasonable approach. True, it can be argued that Techmeme algorithm is rather hard to understand to many bloggers but that does not make most of readers unsubscribe and go look for new sources of tech news. And I am more than willing to give credit to Gabe myself for his constant comments and conversation on blogs where he explains why Techmeme does not meet expectations of every single blogger on Earth.
    Same goes to Michael - he has done an amazing business out of his blog and we can and should admire him and while we may see some flaws in this or that action of his, there's no denying to the fact that the best way to prove it can be better is to do a better Techcrunch, which is not something I believe anyone can do in the near future.
  • Jeremiah Owyang · 1 year ago
    This is not kissing anyone's ass, Louis is pretty much saying it 'how he sees it', I think this is very objective.
  • Alex Hammer · 1 year ago
    Great post Louis as usual.

    I realize that the algorithm to Techmeme is its "secret sauce" and I'm sure a trade secret (as it should be). But Gabe needs to do more to discuss, in general tems, what the algorithm uses as criteria. I haven't seen much on this and I've read, over time, many people questioning what the criteria of the algorithm are.
  • ilamont · 1 year ago
    I've been a fan of Techmeme for years. It is a useful tool, and more efficient than various manual systems I have in place for monitoring blogs and interesting discussions.

    Are there limitations to Techmeme? I think the prominence of professional media organizations and blog networks is a concern. I've just finished a two-part analysis of Techmeme's Leaderboard (http://tinyurl.com/6syp3b) and found that the top 100 sources (out of the nearly 700 indexed by Techmeme in a typical 30-day period) dominate many of the discussions taking place. Even though they only represent 15% of sources referenced by Techmeme in a 30-day period, they account for 72% of featured headlines on Techmeme in that period. This is not just impacting the long tail bloggers; the former A-list blogs have also begun to fade.

    The problem with this trend is individual bloggers often bring a level of expertise that is sorely missing from the mainstream media and blog networks. Many of these independent bloggers -- A list and otherwise -- are experts in their respective fields, and can't easily be hired by media companies or blog on a regular basis.

    This is not Techmeme's fault that they don't get indexed or noticed more frequently, but it's still disappointing. On the other hand, maybe there's an opportunity for Techmeme or some other service to index and monitor only those independent conversations, whether they are A-list or B-list bloggers, or even if they are talking on Friendfeed or some other service.

    Ian Lamont
    Managing Editor
    The Industry Standard
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    One thing many people have asked for is the ability to create a more personalized Techmeme-like product. In theory, assuming Gabe were interested, you could use Techmeme's algorithm, and use criteria to enable a higher amount of stories by topic, or block specific sources. Maybe he's working on that? But if that were to be released, would it have the same impact that Techmeme does today, which in theory, is driven by an even level of activity and interest around the Web?
  • Shelley · 1 year ago
    Techmeme uses weighted factors when determining who gets air time. Unless you're linked by one of the biggies, and continue to be linked by at least moderate or big sites, you won't show up. Who are the biggies? Well, Techcrunch is one, and with Techcrunch spawing other sites, the empire can basically guarantee that will always be top dog in Techmeme. CyndyA has a very good point about Techcrunch pointing to TechcrunchIT, which points to Crunchgear, which points back to Techcrunch. Talk about rigged.

    We won't even go into how few women are on the list, until someone makes a stink and then, wonder of wonders, women actually start showing up (golly). We also won't talk about how insular the environment is, or how the news really is rarely about "technology" and more about marketing. At least posts like this aren't about the Yahoo Board and is Steve going to die tomorrow.

    As for Michael Arrington, he's made an art form of how to throw a hissy fit and end up benefiting from the resulting noise. He, and other princes of the meme boards are also not above deliberately stifling sites run by people they don't like, in order to choke off any potential attention.

    Lastly, most of the people in the Techmeme lists won't link unless it will do them some good. It perpetuates the myth about equality. It harms more than helps.

    You don't see this because you're an insider. You're acceptable to the big boys and therefore you got the attention and now you're part of the club.
  • tonyhung · 1 year ago
    "Unless you're linked by one of the biggies, and continue to be linked by at least moderate or big sites, you won't show up. "

    I think this is only part of the picture. There are blogs which show up -- seemingly out of the blue -- with few or no inbound links to any particular post. Or, who are large in their own right, but without any inbound links from high leaderboarders (see: Digital Inspiration over the past two days).

    I would love to know exactly how Techmeme seems to pick these out of the air.
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    Shelley, I get your comments and concerns there. The cloud of mystery is actually important, in some ways, to Techmeme, as if it were obvious, it could be gamed much easier than it is now. I wouldn't call myself an insider, even if I have been participating in this circle for a few years now.

    There are some prominent bloggers who link more than do others, that's clear. But it's not clear how many links or what prominence of links are needed to make a story hot. If it were, I bet there'd be a lot more friendly linking going on. As for the TechCrunchIT vs. TechCrunch vs. CrunchGear argument, Gabe said on FriendFeed that this was not impacting Techmeme. Also, if TechCrunchIT is run as a parallel property with its own URL and writers, it should have equal opportunity to rise up the leaderboard as any other site.
  • Shelley · 1 year ago
    "As for the TechCrunchIT vs. TechCrunch vs. CrunchGear argument, Gabe said on FriendFeed that this was not impacting Techmeme. "

    That makes no sense, unless Gabe is specifically filtering out these partnered weblogs when they link to each other. In either case, yes, it impacts on Techmeme.
  • Shelley · 1 year ago
    PS Oh, and poor Michael Arrington and having to deal with the hate? This is my own brush with having to deal with Arrington's gentle ways.

    I closed my weblog down specifically because of him. Now, I don't even know why I bother to comment at a post like yours. You're all part of a clan, and we're nothing but noise.
  • CyndyA · 1 year ago
    Sorry, Louis, but this is an awful lot of Techmeme kissing up. Sure, Mona's piece made Techmeme, but I'm also looking at TechCrunchIT climbing the leaderboard, often with not a lot more content than what amounts to a double post with TechCrunch.

    I subscribe to Firehose via RSS mainly so I can find out what NOT to write about to avoid the echo. Do I read it as a source of news or find it authoritative? No. For that, I'm looking at sites like Hacker News, Google Tech News, Java Blogs, and yes, still at /. to see what actual people outside the echo chamber are interested in.
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    I wouldn't call this Techmeme kissing up. That's not reality. Of course, I could say something to the effect that Gabe is a carbon-based life form, and I'd get objections from you.

    You're free to consume your news as you wish, and there are many alternatives, as I had outlined, but the prominence of Techmeme and consistency of it is part of what's made it such a big target for critics, yourself included.
  • charlieanzman · 1 year ago
    Louis - TechMeMe in a sense is an enabler just like Friendfeed. Gabe and I have never met or chatted but when I wrote something that was worth the headline, it was there. I've also noticed that when one area is getting too much attention, it appears to wind down quickly to make room for other stories. No kissing up here at all. No semi-robotic site is going to be perfect. For now, TechMeMe is doing a good job. I'll save my thoughts on TechCrunch for the next one :)
  • Darren Teller · 1 year ago
    yawn.

    with all due respect, this is soooo inside baseball and so inconsequential. who the fu*k really cares?
  • gregorylent · 1 year ago
    meanwhile, in iraq there are more than a million homeless, better living through technolory ...
  • Marty Henderson · 1 year ago
    Bloggers are failing us. It's people like Robert Scoble who make the blogosphere a joke. Mike and Gabe both are contributing something to the efforts. Scoble is a bumbling fool. Take his post today on how blogging if failing us. Scoble is a self centered expert on nothing. He gives a bad name to blogging. Scoble, GigaOm, and Arrington are not the bellweathers of the tech blogophere.
  • Mike Cane · 1 year ago
    >>>Techmeme's Gabe Rivera is well-known for his sarcastic, evasive, answers when his site's reputation is questioned

    As it should be! Inertia has kept it going. If someone came along and did a *fair* version of it, Techmeme would be pushed into the invisibility it has earned! Instead it keeps doing that circle-jerk of links day after day and then he wonders why people have contempt for it or ridicule it?