-
Website
http://www.louisgray.com/live/ -
Original page
http://blog.louisgray.com/2008/07/seeing-webs-racist-underbelly-is.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
I will say that after tonight, I'm now less likly to use yahoo live again and will work on setting up mogulus.com as a back up to ustream.tv until I can get an invite to episodic.com.
I think @Corvida and I may do more live video interviews in the future to discuss social media and topics in our culture. Keep an eye out on twitter for details.
Let's continue to grow and be better than we where the day before.
Thanks @waynesutton
And today I saw 2 more "hot" Internet articles - which (female) bloggers Playboy wants you to vote on for a shoot, and which 20 woman bloggers should pose in bikinis.
Thanks for sharing.
Speak up. The first couple of times it might be hard, after that it's a piece of cake. When you hear someone - ANYONE - make a racist, sexist, homophobic or otherwise discriminatory comment, say something. And be clear. I've found that phrases like:
For co-workers, acquaintances, (in my case landlords) - people you "kind of" know -
"I'm sorry, please don't speak like that to me, you come off as uneducated (stupid/ignorant/racist etc etc) and I don't think that's the type of person you are".
For friends:
"If you'd like to remain my friend, please don't speak to me like that. And honestly, do you really feel that way?" (if answer = yes, reconsider friendship)
For strangers:
"You seem like you might be a cool person, but when you talk like that you come off as ... (see above)."
Again, the hardest part is the first few times you do it. My experience has been that when confronted so blatantly, most people are embarrassed. Sometimes rather surprised.
I've yet to be put in a situation where the person I have to say something too looks like someone who's itching to kick my ass. I suppose that'll be the real test (I just hope I can run faster).
For me, this started when I moved to Vancouver. I was hugely disappointed at the level of racism in Philadelphia, and I kept telling all my friends "yes shit like this happens in Canada, but not nearly as often. We're just a more multicultural country". It took moving to Vancouver, BC to find out how wrong I was. I was basing my statements on growing up in Toronto, where again - yes I'm sure there are horrible racists and awful acts committed daily, but far less frequently. I grew up with people from all kinds of different backgrounds, and we all just got along. No racists comments or jokes, no treating each other differently based on skin colour.
Vancouver is a whole other ballgame. The level of racism towards Asians is just disgusting. Ditto First Nationals. And this province prides itself on being more "enlightened" than the rest of Canada. To that I say, BS.
I've spent some time quietly observing Yahoo! Live before, and ANY popular channel (seriously, ANY) is FILLED, just like you're describing this one, with some of the most hateful, disgusting language and behavior you can imagine. While I'm not saying what happened during this broadcast was despicable, I think the Yahoo! Live community is despicable in general.
Just saying Yahoo! Live is once instance. I spend time in a lot of places online, and Y! Live is one of the few that's stunned me.
I really commend Corvida and Wayne for just brushing them off. Not only does that take away these guys' power, but it pisses them off to no end :)
Cowards can say whatever they want hiding behind their firewalls and anonymous chat nicknames. This is probably one of the main reasons I have not been on Yahoo chat in years.
But as someone who came of age in the 60s and 70s and was considered a campus radical for supporting racial and sexual equality, I've seen my hope for an end of racism and sexism fail to be realized in each successive generation of young people.
As long as prejudice and intolerance are taught by parents to their children, we'll have haters in our society who lash out at those they don't like using the most convenient and obvious difference between themselves and their perceived "enemy". As I grow older I find myself becoming more cynical about Americans ever getting over race and gender differences. I am becoming the epitome of George Carlin's comment that "“inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”.
I have hoped for racism to become extinct for 40 years now. Is that too long to hope, or have I not allowed enough time for humans to evolve into rational, not racist, humans?
However, progress IS being made. Slowly. I don't believe the trolls and jerks that were spewing today even knew half of what they were saying. And if they did, it was just part of the 'shock mentality' that goes with the Howard Stern and Internet troll crowd.
There are always going to be haters. If it's not because of race or gender, it'll be because you have a blue background on your site, or you use one word too often, or whatever. They're just set to hate for the sake of hating.
That doesn't make this any easier to stomach. Some say to laugh at it. I can't do that. It makes me too sick and they're just not funny. They're selfish hedonists who love making themselves look great at others' expense.
As individuals, we can only do what you've attempted to do here - shine a spotlight on hatred and teach those around you that it's unacceptable. And, wherever possible, lift the veneer of anonymity and expose those who hate for what they are.
Racism and hatred are unfortunately alive and well in the world - and like all other forms of vicious behavior - have found their way onto the internet as well.
Kudos to both Wayne & Corvida - and quite glad I missed the vile spew of the morons in the chatroom.
And I'm not saying you think otherwise. Just this topic is burning in my mind right now for another reason and wanted to say this.
I listened & unfortunately watched parts of the discussion - and like Louis... I was stunned. It was filth of the lowest form & yahoo, google, microsoft and every other internet service provider out there should put this up there in their top list of priorities to not only eradicate the language using more powerful filters, IP blocks etc...but also using other means, like possibly giving charities & organisations who work against this kind of thing every day free advertising across their networks and more platforms for them to voice their campaigns & values which most of us stand by.
Something has to be done about this it was disturbing and even more disturbing to watch live. And Louis you're right - Corvida & Wayne deserve a hell of a lot more respect for what was a well put together discussion.
Although I didn't specifically address racist, I wrote an interesting post about black nerds, here: http://davidadewumi.com/2008/07/06/why-are-blac... (the reddit and hacker news comments, as well as those on my blog, are particularly insightful)
At the end of the day, as a black person, I'm not too offended by that stuff. I've had one girlfriend (white) whose family and friends would talk about me using the word 'nigger', and another Puerto Rican girlfriend whose one side of the family refuses to accept me for being black. I've experienced racism from the Amazon Jungle to the Carribeans to Colorado.
It's really something where, as a young black male, I don't really have time to convince everyone to be thoughtful and courteous of color, sex, religion, ethos, or any other physical, hereditary, or learned characteristic.
Besides, why let someone who hides behind anonymity get beneath your skin? At least in Feldman's post he was who he is.
The most important thing in this country is not that everybody is not racist, but that despite whatever social or cultural difference or prejudice someone has against you or I, opportunity still flows abundant.
Or are you just shocked that racists can type, or blog, or make a racist video? That 'ish aint shocking. Sorry they had to go through it though, but its out there. And it WILL GET WORSE as Obama moves forward. We will ALL see some shocking comments real soon. Get on your seat belts folks, why the hell you think CNN got this thing coming up. Being Black in America is the "NEW" thing. This is a trip and you better get ready.
That's my 2 cents....thank you for reading.
It was a great demonstration to EVERYONE that racism in America is alive and well. It opened up the conversation and made even those who don't think of such things "aware."
I'm personally tired of the elephant in the room that is RACISM IN AMERICA. It's time we actually look at the elephant, acknowledge the elephant and either "move" the elephant out of the room, or move to another room all together. It is quite evident . . . until we actually TALK about this whole issue (and not pretend it's all okay now) we will forever be subjected to this type of behavior . . . this type of thinking . . . this type of THING that is holding us ALL back (all of us no matter the skin color).
Our local newspapers' forums reveal pretty fast how the "rest" of the world feels. As distressing as it is at least it's in the forefront for the moment and we see it . I'm glad you express your thoughts so the discussion continues or it just stays in the background.
No offense to you Louis, language happens generally quicker than we can think about it.
I have seen a lot of racism online and some of these people are smart, some of them are young, really young. The new breed of racists that can turn the air blue with obscene comments and not care. It comes so easy that in one debate they can be ruthless but yet in another they can talk to friends who in a sense look up to them as if they are a leader. We are a long way from being safe online, by proxy they are at will to continue doing as they like...
Racism remains unfortunately widespread across the world, each country having its fair share of racism towards varying targets based on a variety of categorizations (not only "race" per se, for what it means, but more generally skin color, religion, social background, accent, nationality etc.).
The online world being a "microcosm" (albeit a growing one) of the "real world", it is not a surprise to see racism online.
Having said that, it is important, as you just did, to keep denouncing racism (and other types of prejudice and "pigeon-holing" of "other" people) relentlessly in all it's shapes and forms.
As far as I'm concerned, we're all Web colored and we all live in the blogosphere. We all deserve respect and we all deserve to have a voice. How we reconcile that to rude, ignorant, and hateful behavior is beyond me at this point, but communication of some kind has to be part of any solution.
Have you guys read this poem by Martin Niemoller?
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
this entire thread, this entire issue, is about behaviour
humans range from stupid to sublimely brilliant. it is very hard to change people, it is proving to be an evolution of dozens of centuries.
all we can do when we encounter idiots is not sink to their level. if you know a higher truth, live it. that is all one can do. criticizing changes nothing.
egoic identity with body or mind or culture or gender or nation is proving to be a self-limiting belief structure, one that everyone on this planet is being forced to grow beyond.
There are online places that get overrun with racists where the unspoken rule is to denigrate others that are different from them (some userplane rooms I've been to come to mind) but there are more common areas of interaction, blogs, forums where comments will be made by various racist posters and no one voices an opinion against the speech. In many experiences I've had, the moderate folks who claim not to be racist or never have used certain words stay silent when witnessing the abuse being levied to a fellow blog /site/ forum / chat visitor.
Racism will be dead and buried the day that the entire community of people , where ever they may be interacting denounces hateful speech directed at a member or members because of their ethnicity. Until I see that occur I am forced to conclude that many persons of European extraction don't feel obligated to denounce hateful speech if it isn't directed at them. I personally find all ethnic slurs offensive and have admonished people of all ethnicities online and in public for saying things that I felt were insensitive or down right racist. Until more people who don't look like me feel it is their obligation to do the same we will still have the problem to deal with.
Finally, many hateful statements have their sharpest barbs formed from the grains of truth that may inspire the comments. Indeed there are many sites and blogs that are run by people of color that are embarrassingly ignorant in their use of the English language or in their display of ethnic sensitivity. Ignorant people see these and off goes a feedback loop of one ignorant targeting another based on a generalization of a statistical blip in the others population. The internet fails in allowing people to see the total spectrum of interests, beliefs and motivations that drive people of different ethnicity all over the world. Mainly this is caused by the selectivity of the media (you go to where you want , you see what you want...thus conforming the input data to what you already "believed" to be so) but when coupled with an already impoverished mind that was given early reinforcement of bigoted and racist views from childhood , it only serves to strengthen the ignorance and not weaken it. Forums like this one tend to be avoided by such folks...fortunately the change to web 2.0 is tying together the global community (disqus is a perfect example of this) in such a way that views and opinions expressed in one forum can be viewed by others who may not normally visit those fora. The same is happening in video and chat ...so the web is again helping to open up the conversation on any particular topic from being a site bound one to being a global one , and that is a great thing.
I have a very similar screen of comments I captured during an online performance in Europe, where invited participants only from top technical universities in the US logged into wish ill of a female programmer/developer, (ficticious but they did not know this). They actually thought she was wearing a device that would kill her, which they could activate online. It was a real working device. They had to log in and write a comments about why they wanted to harm her to activate it. They did. The only thing they didn't know was that she was not wearing the device. Instead their comments scrolled across the screen all night as the device clicked on and off. It was to prove a point, to show that aggression in technical universities at that time existed towards female technologists; because no one would acknowledge that the aggression existed.
It is not about gender, or race. It is about power. Those who have power, do not want to share. It is simple really. I found a great article today with comments from anita hill about this, written 10 years after her testimony. It sickens me, but it has much truth. You don't have to agree with Hill to see the truth in it:
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2002/apri...
I think we have to be willing to share. I know this sounds too simple, but those who have power often do not even recognize they have it, they just know instinctively that they feel challenged when someone without it might be close to taking away some of it... If we had more of an instinct to share and be inclusive, we would not need to be devisive through the vehicles of gender and race.
Thanks for writing about it and taking the time to provoke some great discussion. Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness, right?
“Chocolate News” is ostensibly a newsmagazine — the “Dateline” to Jon Stewart’s “Nightly News.” As an example of what viewers can expect, Mr. Grier pointed to an upcoming skit about the person who does John McCain’s laundry. The skit also features Mr. McCain’s “Reverend Wright-type person,” referring to Mr. Obama’s controversial pastor.
Mr. Grier joked: “We found John McCain’s launderer, his dry cleaner, and his recordings… where the guy goes, you know, ‘Black and white cannot be together. If they mix, white will be ruined. This cannot be allowed to happen.’ ” In the skit, the comments are “used by the ‘Chocolate News’ to bring him down,” Mr. Grier added.
oh, by the way, this is by black people on mainstream media
shey? covida? louis?? any comments??
Honest people admit that and work for division -- but not for racism, which is an emotional reaction to a logical problem.
Neo-Nazis and liberals, on race, are the same thing: people who won't honestly face the issue.
So it just makes sense that the disease of racism hasn't gone away, it has just found another medium in which to show its ugly face. Thanks for sharing Louis.