DISQUS

louisgray.com: louisgray.com: Bloggers' Interactions with Readers Decrease With Prominence

  • Marshall Kirkpatrick · 1 year ago
    Interesting observations. I read awhile ago that the definition of fame is when there are more people who care about what you're doing than you are capable of keeping up with in return yourself. That made sense to me. The web is changing the distribution curve (?) for that kind of stuff, but some things stay the same. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go ignore people so I can convince myself and them that I'm more important than I really am.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    That quote is exactly right. The sheer volume of readers can be overwhelming. And response or non-responses are visible to everyone. I can imagine that would contribute to a feeling of wanting to pull back.
  • James Joyner · 1 year ago
    I'm pretty solidly in Stage 3 and unlikely, after 5-1/2 years, to ever make it to stage 4. I read all my comments, participate in the discussion threads occasionally, and am even finally giving FriendFeed and such a shot. But, no, I don't interact as much with readers as I did in stages 1 and 2.

    That said, I still think I'm engaging in a conversation rather than merely lecturing at readers. Many of my posts react to the comments I get as well as the larger blogospheric debate.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    James - I hear you on the level of interaction. "Lecturing at" does sound pejorative. If an industry legend does that, it's possible that people will stop reading. But Seth Godin seems to come up with these gems time after time. Perhaps "imparting wisdom" is another way to look at it.
  • Brendan Cooper · 1 year ago
    I like this 'lifetime of a blogger' insight. It holds water - even if bloggers interact less through their blog, it could be that they simply start interacting more through other media.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Robert Scoble is one example of that - find him on Twitter and FriendFeed (but he still blogs plenty).
  • Rishabh Mishra (possible248) · 1 year ago
    I think that the interaction between the bloggers and readers depends on the bloggers and readers. If the blogger is at Stage 4 of being a blogger, and the vast majority of readers are also Stage 4 quality, I think that the blogger would be very tempted to participate in the good discussion about the blogger's posts.

    Of course, me having just arrived at Stage 2, this is all just guessing. :D

    EDIT: I would like to add that how I measure the level of interaction is the kind of conversation that the blogger is participating in. The more thought-provoking the conversation, the more I think that the blogger is interacting. A Stage 4 blogger can't possibly participate in ALL the conversations, but participating only in the conversations that the blogger (and most likely his readers too) believes is valuable is something that I think is humanly possible.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Interesting thought about the readers and their relative stage. Fred Wilson seems to attract a lot of those Stage 4 reader types. And so does Louis Gray!
  • Maria Reyes-McDavis · 1 year ago
    This is an excellent post! Thank you for sharing such detail!

    Maria Reyes-McDavis
    Marketing Masters Guide
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Thanks Maria.
  • baratunde · 1 year ago
    honestly the headline irritated me on this post. seems like a pretty obvious point that has absolutely nothing to do with blogging and everything to do with attention and fame. Famous people cannot possibly interact with a large audience in any substantive way

    in his latest book "Here Comes Everybody" Clay Shirky defines fame as "simply an imbalance between inbound and outbound attention, more arrows pointing in than out. Two things have to happen for someone to be famous, neither of them related to technology. The first is scale: he or she has to have some minimum amount of attention, an audience in the thousands or more. Second, he or she has to be unable to reciprocate...."

    Shirky goes on to explain that while the web allows for the TECHNICAL possibility of massive interaction and reciprocity, there is still a COGNITIVE limit.
  • Marshall Kirkpatrick · 1 year ago
    I object to Baratunde saying the same thing I meant to here and sounding so much smarter about it! I think it must have been Shirky I heard that definition from - but yeah, cognitive limits are key I think.
  • baratunde · 1 year ago
    anytime, marshall. anytime :)
  • baratunde · 1 year ago
    one more thing. this is written as if the only valuable conversation is between the writer and his or her massive audience. i say no. the real valuable conversation occurs among members of the audience, thus converting them from mere readers into active community members.

    again, this has nothing to do with blogging. the community that springs up around a band or a movie has very little to do with direct interaction with the artist and much more to do with "fans" making connection around their INITIAL common interest.
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    One of the biggest changes in blogging over the last two years is to your point in that the conversation is shifting, not just to between different audience members, but different mediums, as Hutch outlines, to Twitter, FriendFeed and the rest. It's true that as an audience gets larger, the subject of the attention will certainly have greater strain when called to interact, but the audience will find similarities between one another to fill the gap.
  • nickhalstead · 1 year ago

    It certainly is much harder even for those in the earlier phases to interact with their audience, more fragmentaton = more time to get involved.



    sent from: fav.or.it
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Baratunde - I wholeheartedly agree with your point about conversations among readers. I liken it to setting off a lot of little conversational fires. People taking something from a blog and refining it in their own ways. And sometimes those conversational fires become infernos. Kudos to the blogger who starts them.

    As for other venues of fame - true, true. But blogging's roots have more of a conversational component to them than do other media. And the vast majority of bloggers embrace this dynamic. Robert Seidman's initial challenge to the "conversational" nature of blogging was the cause for looking at this in the first place.
  • ChangeForge | Ken Stewart · 1 year ago
    baratunde, I completely agree with your point regarding the value of conversation amongst the audience... as well as what Butch was referencing in starting several conversational fires...

    While the Internet is a great medium for dissemination of information, would not social media be a way to connect with those outside of our normal geographical locales?

    I would also somewhat disagree with a famous person not being able to interact with their audience. While I would agree that there may be little direct interaction, having fame (and possibly fortune) can be utilized as a tool for the benefit of humanity in general... This in and of itself should be considered interaction of great magnitude, should it not? ... a repayment to the fans in the simple form of 'paying it forward'.

    Suffice it to say, your point in general is well taken, and very well put.
  • Phil Glockner · 1 year ago
    This is a great article, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I'm also really like the insight people are bringing in the comments to fame and blogging.

    Thanks for this! Man, all the guest bloggers are really bringing out their best stuff this past week or two. I love it!
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Thanks Phil. Fun hanging around here at Louis's house.
  • Phil Glockner · 1 year ago
    You're even over at his house! Dang now that's how you treat a guess blogger, I tell you what!
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    If he's at my house, then I better leave work and warn the wife and kids.
  • Mark Dykeman · 1 year ago
    Well good, I don't have to worry about writing that eBook now... :)

    In all seriousness, you've done a great job of defining the stages of blogging in terms of fame and interection.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Thanks Mark. Certainly had to guess what it's like for the later stage bloggers, but they write enough to understand what they're go through.
  • Anthony Farrior · 1 year ago
    I hope to be a stage 1 and 1/2. I still throw certain posts out there to see what sticks and I frequent the A-Listers lounge(friendfeed) to see what tools they use. I'm not sure about the interaction decline after success though. I do agree that after wanting and begging for comments the thrill leaves after receiving them. However, if the core idea of your blog is to foster conversation, I don't see why that would stop after a certain level. Even Mike Arrington swoops down from his heavenly A-list cloud to interact with the his readers...
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Anthony - you're right, Arrington does jump in on occasion. He can be pretty funny when he does. And getting people talking is an important part of his ad-driven business model.
  • ontarioemperor · 1 year ago
    Hutch, if you'll listen to me (j/k), I think that you're discussing two different types of interactions. When you look at your list

    Allowing blog comments
    Responding to blog comments
    Commenting on FriendFeed about your blog
    Tweeting links to your blog posts
    Digging your blog
    Stumbling your blog
    Pimping your blog on others' blogs

    you'll see that most of them are initiated by the blogger, and that most of them can take place in a vacuum. I see those more as promotional activities rather than two-way interactions.

    Reading blog comments, and responding, and reading FriendFeed comments, and responding, and reading other blog posts that link to your blog post, and responding - those are true interaction. If blogger X is doing these things, it really doesn't matter whether he's tweeting a link to every blog post he/she writes. (In fact, I often refrain from tweeting links to my blog posts, sharing my own blog posts via my own Google Reader shared items, etc. - I reserve this activity for the more interesting posts only.)

    Other than that minor quibble, good post. I can't really comment on the accuracy of your model, since I myself am not an established voice or an industry legend.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    OE - you are exactly right. I did commingle two activities. I did so because at their core, you're trying to get your thoughts across to readers. So under that umbrella, they make sense.

    That's also why I broke out the interactions as two use cases:

    1. Interactions when the blogger is trying to learn about things
    2. Interactions when the blogger is trying to promote the blog

    Both of those interactions decrease in Stage 3.
  • ontarioemperor · 1 year ago
    For what it's worth, those stage 3/4 bloggers who do continue to interact (in either use case) tend to occupy a "top of mind" presence for me. But I'm sure it's hard work.
  • Duncan Riley · 1 year ago
    I don't believe, with perhaps the odd exception, that not interacting is an option any more. The value equation has shifted from content alone to content + interaction.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    It's an interesting change, isn't it Duncan? Assume two pieces of content, roughly equal in value to a reader. The blogger who interacts will likely win the attention battle. It's the content that really stands out where interaction matters less. But that's a tough standard to hit consistently.
  • Mona N. · 1 year ago
    Louis, you rock!!!
  • Aaron Brazell · 1 year ago
    Your article avoids a key variable. As time progresses, people change, but articles remain the same. In other words, I get tons of comments on older articles that no longer reflect who or what I'm doing now. So I don't respond to comments because they are a distraction to the here and now. The longer you're around, the more of that kind of content you have.

    By the way, Louis.... You're fired for writing another nauseatingly introspective article. 'Nuff o' that, k? :)
  • Louis Gray · 1 year ago
    Hi Aaron, since this was nauseatingly introspective, you'll have to take it up with the author, Hutch Carpenter. He's trespassing on my turf.
  • Aaron Brazell · 1 year ago
    Ahhha yes indeed. :-p
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    See Louis - had to stick with the "brand"! ;-)
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 year ago
    This is primarily why fudge.org is now (and for the likely near future will be) devoid of all the dated content it contained. The commentary was just very very moment in time. If one could side index articles of the time and avoid link rot, so be it, but I have yet to see that work reliably.

    Even my most popular post on SFP records for Blackberry ended up being better discussed at another blog where they had continuous updated information and links.

    Links are not literary grade footnotes. They are, at best, attempts at shifting a physical world practice to an increasingly volatile medium. In the end, links as we know them today fail.
  • seth godin · 1 year ago
    Just because I don't interact the way you want me to doesn't mean I'm not interacting. I personally read and answer every single email I get (and it's a lot) and I read most of the blogs that mention a post of mine. I've posted about the comment thing and the Twit thing is a true investment to get right. I can't get it right, not if I want to do the other things I do.

    Sorry to disappoint, but here's the thing: I haven't had comments since I was a n00b, so I think I broke your graph.

    Also, Ontario's point is an excellent one. I think there's a different between personal interactions driven by the reader and outbound interactions driven by the blogger.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Hey Seth - really cool that you checked in here. Regarding the lack of comments on your blog. I understand the rationale. Clarifying or answering people's comments would be time consuming. I get that. Robert Scoble feels like that has become an increasing burden, and you might experience the same.

    Your posts are really good as standalone points of view. Your previous success in the entrepreneurial world, "permission marketing", books and Fast Company writing really established your reputation. I don't know when you started blogging in earnest, but I'd say your external work pretty much fast-tracked you to "industry legend" status. Like I said in this post, ig Jerry Yang started blogging, I wouldn't expect him to have comments either.

    The one thing about comments would this: your blog posts can serve as forums for people to discuss your ideas. If you could resist the urge to clarify everything, you might find some interesting stuff coming from readers.

    But as I say, not necessary. Your writings are terrific pieces of knowledge by themselves.
  • Roger Kondrat · 1 year ago
    Seth not surprised you weighed in once your name was mentioned like that. Truly everyone has their own way to interact and another 'non-standard' way was (is?) how Scoble used to have his phone number up on his site.

    We all have our ways. Me I get very few comments on my blog, even though I always respond and show my appreciation. But on FF I get and give lots of comments it is great.

    PS. I liked the Purple Cow, read it when it was released a while back and I liked it. Was a fun read. :)
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 year ago
    If I was more of an artist I'd draw a picture of Schlosskirche's doors covered in hand written post-it notes.
  • philbaumann · 1 year ago
    Excellent intuition pump you're offering here. If you're using widgets on a blog, this could be a useful one (half-kidding). Just to show readers where you are in your development?

    I agree with Duncan though about interaction. I think the graph is mostly right, especially as far as traditional blogging is concerned. But I think the process of commenting is changing. Robert Scoble is half-right about comments being dead. Blog comments 1.0 are dead, but they are being resurrected via FF and other services.

    Comment fragmentation is as valuable as it is frustrating. I think it could encourage industry legends back into the commenting business. So although I agree with the gist of your intuition pump, I think the future of legendary interaction remains to be seen.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    Phil - Love the widget idea. We could have this chart, and it would update in real-time. Inputs = technorati scores, comments on the blog, comments on third party sites...

    Seth Godin's perspective was an interesting one. He doesn't have comments because he'd feel compelled to go out there and clarify and answer things. All that's really needed is a quick snippet of a comment, not a deep thought.
  • Robert Seidman · 1 year ago
    Hutch, you simply don't want to buy into Seth being a busy, busy guy who doesn't have the time and is trying to balance many, many things and has made his choices. Interestingly, despite his lack of commentary, I'd pay a subscription fee for his content. You want Seth to be more interactive. I'm grateful for how interactive and willing to share his mind that he already is. You want him to change, but I'm fine with him as he is. What you're thinking about is perhaps useful for some, but I don't think it's fair to tell someone how they should interact, even if it's "only a quick comment" you are looking for.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    I know Seth's busy. I "get" not going out and commenting all the time. I'm thinking of a different aspect though. The feeling that you'd actually have to comment on everything. I actually think it's great that Seth would feel that way - says he cares about his audience a lot. I'm just questioning whether 100% interaction is really needed.

    And no, I don't think Seth has any reason to interact with readers on his blog (although he does find the time to respond to emails...). As I said before, Seth's work stands alone quite well.
  • Robert Seidman · 1 year ago
    just even taking the time to read every comment might be massive for Seth. One of the reasons Seth's content stands alone is it's very thoughtful, another is it's not "me too" kind of stuff (you won't see him writing about twitter every time there is a problem) and as a result of this there is, by default, a much wider audience for the content.

    It's tough in the technology blogging sector because it's highly competitive. Still, you hit on the key point: content that stands alone. While interaction is a key component (and should be) for many bloggers, I'd argue that if one has to prioritize, it should be a lower priority than creating content that will stand alone.
  • PG · 1 year ago
    just moving out of stage 1 into stage 2 really. I blog for a hobby, personal slice of life stuff so I will gladly stop my ascent in stage 2. Interesting stuff though and I am glad that I came across the post.

    I think, to a smaller/more focused/localized degree the celebrity turned blogger with an instant shot up to the upper levels of the bell curve would be Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling. Although he is still fairly active in responding to comments on his own site he isn't seen much elsewhere online.
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    PG - I hear you stopping at Stage 2. Robert Scoble is a Stage 2 blogger with a Stage 4 reputation.

    Curt Schilling would be interesting to follow. I only know of his perspectives from the interviews I've seen reported. He's not shy.
  • PG · 1 year ago
    should have mentioned Schill blogs at 38pitches.com
  • ChangeForge | Ken Stewart · 1 year ago
    Hutch, very good points. I would concur with your graph and analysis of the situation from my meager observations. This might also ring true for other vocations in life as well.

    Something you said really rang true, regarding being a 'student of life' vs. the professor. Being a student of life is one of my core motto's that I strive never to lose sight of. Through personal experiences, I have learned that when I fashion myself an expert on something, my ego swells, and I quickly find out many other areas I do not have mastered.

    This being said, I have never held with the ideal of a "tenured professor" status. Notice I did not say it does not exist, but I believe the right vs. responsibility pyramid to be inverted in that model. It would be my assertion that as your fame grows, so to does your responsibility.

    It is interesting that people in stage 3 or 4 would have the feeling of "arriving". While I agree with the emotion, the aftermath that ensues should such a person feel they should no longer need to drink of the fountain of knowledge, or experience life in the trenches, is somehow, again, upside down to me.

    Again, great read... I am very pleased that Louis let you crash for a little while. I have another writer to read now in my quest for knowledge...
  • Hutch Carpenter · 1 year ago
    ChangeForge - thanks for your thoughts. I like the way you framed it in the "tenured professor" status. Even the later stage bloggers continue to learn. But something changes. Their learning probably comes a lot more "offline" with other luminaries in the industry.

    Then they become the ones who put the ideas forward that the rest of us discuss. I find myself discussing in my blog what these more advanced bloggers come up with.
  • fredwilson · 1 year ago
    i don't want to get to stage 4 if it means you have to stop engaging with readers. i'd rather stop blogging.
  • terra210 · 1 year ago
    I loved this post. It created some needed distance and a map; very valuable. thanks!

    What about famous people who blog, and then because they get so busy, (or...), they have assistants reply to comments? Or in the case of some, they hire people to write the posts? How can we truly know the blog or the comments come from the person? I know in traditional media, editorials were often not written by the author. The same with political speeches. They just sign off. Will or do bloggers do this? Will there be bots that reply to comments? Curious and curiouser....