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Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

tjgillies — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:42:21 -0000

Seesmic video reply from Disqus.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Frida — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:12:40 -0000

"My 2c is that there's something incredibly wrong with inhibiting totally positive innocent actions (like just being friendly to someone 10 years younger than you, or helping a young child across the street) because of some *possible* *perceived* social infraction."

I dig it and could not have said it any better myself.

I think we're finally starting to shed many of our shared social hang-ups that, when considered beyond just the surface, are usually just non-sense.

Why can't some one be a positive role model for a 10 y.o. (Michael Jackson jokes aside)?

Frida

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Vicki — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:20:55 -0000

I worry about some of you people. The only thing I see as "creepy" about what's being said here is that some people think and age difference is creepy!

I'm 11 years younger (chronologically) than my spouse. We've been together for 25 yeas. Mentally? We're peers.

One of our friends is the 20-something daughter of a friend of my spouse. The daughter has been a friend in her own right since she was 5 years old.
I joined Mensa between College and Grad school because I hoped it would help me meet new people. I made friends who were 16/17 and friends in their 70s and above... and none of us seemed to notice or care.

I'm chronologically older than most of my co-workers. As leigh points out, these days at most companies, "everyone is twenty". The older you get, the more people you will meet who will be younger than you are. Get over it.

The problem here isn't the number. It's how you feel about the number. Or how you don't feel about it.

I've always felt that the people I work with are my peers. Sometimes, someone mentions that he has grandchildren. Or a co-worker says "I was too young to see Star Wars when it first came out."

And then I forget again, because we're peers.

Ginger - I feel so sorry for you. You'll never know what you have in common with someone if you make a generalization based on their age. Everyone's experiences are different. (I met a woman 20 years younger than me who watched exactly the same television shows growing up. She grew up in Europe.)

To those who think it matters - with true maturity, you realize that "age" is just a number. What counts is what's in the other person's head. Think carefully about wat's in your head and ask yourself why your age matters?

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Yelsgib — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 01:17:01 -0000

Why is it creepy for adults to be friends with children? This is the sort of horrid ageism that is driving our generations apart.

When I return to the US I hope to make friends with children (under 12) and with "old people" (over 50). I'm 22. Is this "creepy?" Should we be content to be socially confined to a +/- 5 year bubble?

Children are interesting - they grow very quickly, are excitable and creative. Old people have wisdom and perspective (and often a lot of time). Cutting them out of my life would highly reduce its dimensionality, right?

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Tom — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 01:01:48 -0000

Just to reiterate what has been said many times over at this point I think you’re a tad too rigid.
My Dad was an actor and so I grew up around theatre folk and being that most productions have people of all ages and it was common to go out after each show there were friendships that developed between people of every age. Nothing weird about it.

It’s all about life experience really. I’m a 28 year old guy who is single and while I’d like to think we’d get along fine if I ever met you I suspect you’d have a lot more in common with a 20 year old if that 20 year old was married and just had twins.

The truth is, imho, you can learn something from anyone and life is too short to pass up the chance to gain that knowledge because you’re afraid of what other people might think.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Kaari J — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:56:33 -0000

Yes, it's sticky. But this is from someone who just ignored a friend request from a 16 year-old girl. Yes, I know her...but not that well. And, truly, what do we have in common besides the fact that she is 16, and I once was 16 as well? A loooong time ago...

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Berzelmayr — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:48:41 -0000

"Creepy" is without a doubt the favorite word of schmucks.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

tamar — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:27:56 -0000

I totally second Louis here, Corvida. You rock.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Suzanne — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:52:24 -0000

It's pretty astute of you to be considering these issues about who to friend and how young to go. I'm 46, so rest assured, you're not old till your kids are grown and having kids. Maybe not even then! ;-)

I am a teacher so I never, ever, ever friend anyone online who's below 18 -- just because of appearances. Some people have accusations about even less than friending and teachers have lost their jobs. It's a shame because I'm a tech teacher and would really like to share geekiness with those who want to or be more available to kids who need tech help after-hours, but it's just too gray an area. I no longer even respond to any text messages from kids. Some teachers I know do have students as friends, but I say it's risky.

The main point you made which resonated with me was the difference in ages in online friends. The bigger the difference, the more unhealthy a friendship could appear, no matter how innocent. Too bad we live in an age of so much connectedness but so much need for caution as well.

Thanks for the post!

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Bill Cammack — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:51:02 -0000

So what's your point? That Mashable should have informed you somewhere that Alana's 20 or whatever so you could have avoided going to her personal blog and creeping yourself out?

How would your experience been better, had Alana been 25, or 35 or 45?

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Richard Cunningham — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:28:28 -0000

I'm 27, I think there are some boundaries here, but they not quite what you think.
I think the 10-15 years younger that you metric is wrong - it should be based on someone's absolute age not your age relative to them.

At age 18 at least if not 16, people are expected to interact with people of all ages above at least. If someone is 18 almost certainly have to deal with people upto age 65 in the workplace or university etc. and in the UK many kids of 16/17 will have jobs that involve this type of interaction and for others being online maybe a big part of their job (it was when I was 17).

Below 12/13 would seem be a lower bound - not sure if they really should be interacting online with non-family adults.

And that leaves some gray area from 13-18 which I couldn't think of an answer to.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Ginger — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:46:45 -0000

I'll be honest. If I see a bunch of middle aged men subscribed to a young girl who creates a flirty video stream I'm going to assume these dudes are just a bunch of horny old men. Whether or not this is perfectly 'natural' is besides the point. If they're engaging this content under their own name and in a public space they will be judged according to societal norms. If I see you subscribing to that kind of content I will assume you are a horny old man - so, likely, will others. What does this say about you? That's your question and mine. Whether or not you are a horny old man is your business. But the issue is whether or not you wish to advertise this to the world. I am close to 40. I have nothing in common with anybody in their 20s on down. I have lived through a different history than they have and have different concerns.They may be coworkers or people I mentor but they are never properly "friends" - not to me. Anything more than 10 years difference before 30, is a huge disconnection. After that, we've all earned our stripes as "adults" and can call each other adult.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Rahsheen — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:26:24 -0000

I think it all boils down to the reason for the connection. Having a common interest is probably the most important reason I can think of for being friends with someone, period. Age usually has no affect on whether you can communicate and discuss with someone on a specific topic.

For instance, I have a cousin who is about 10yrs younger than me. We do music, as do a lot of his friends, so I am also cool with his friends...who are all his age or younger. My dad also is into music and has a lot of connections in the industry, so I am friends with some of his friends...and some of his friends are friends with my cousins friends.

Was that confusing enough? Huge age differences, but the common interest overrides them.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

ceonyc — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:03:15 -0000

Think about it this way... What if Mark Zuckerberg had friended you when he was 19 and he wanted to chat with you about social networking? That would have been a big miss for your career had you thought it was too creepy.

Alana is incredibly mature (period, not "for her age"... she's just very mature). She's more mature than a lot of the other 28 year olds I know and a lot of the 40 somethings I know, too. I asked her to do a SXSW panel with me because I value her input and thinking.

More so than her age, half a brain cell worries about the perception of me interacting with her b/c she's... um... fair to the eye. Then I realize she probably gets the same about me. ;)

Knowledge is being democratized more and more everyday... and with regards to technology, "experienced" people aren't necessarily the most knowledgeable. I think as long as you conduct yourself professionally, there's nothing for you to worry about.

I agree with the idea that you might not want to friend anyone you don't really know, because then you don't have a good sense for why they want to friend you either.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

niksmit — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:28:58 -0000

My 2c is that there's something incredibly wrong with inhibiting totally positive innocent actions (like just being friendly to someone 10 years younger than you, or helping a young child across the street) because of some *possible* *perceived* social infraction.

Only the guilty should feel guilty,but recently our societal norms seem to reinforce this collective guilt idea. At the risk of sounding like a hippy, we need all the positivity,mentoring, and free exchange of ideas we can get - not less.

Surely we should be judging people based on what they do - a meritocracy. The internet is fantastic in levelling the playing fields (location, gender, race, etc.) - (further hippy alert) ideally those ideas would become more expressed in the real world too.

I agree with Peter - how we deal with this online will either further encourage the media sensationalisation, or perhaps curb it. Actually discussing it is a great first step though, as I think a lot of people keep these thoughts in their heads, and end up just erring on the side of caution by default.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

lilbyrdie — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:27:02 -0000

So many comments, so quickly. This must be a hot topic.

The whole notion of "friend" is my issue. Up until very recently, I pretty much avoided "friending" someone on a social network if they weren't actually a friend (which basically meant I didn't take part in social networks).

And then it hit me: The word "friend" within social networks doesn't mean that at all. It's basically just a "subscribe" or "follow" and doesn't really mean anything more than, say, a 14 year old buy every album -insert pop culture idol here- makes or a 8 year old having a fascination with, say, the star of Spider-man.

Sure, there isn't as much possible interaction, but fan clubs have always existed, too. Is it all that different from a "fan club" where you're interacting with your "fans"?

What's creepier isn't so much the 15 year old girl following one of us 30-somethings on twitter or contacting us on Flickr. What's creepy is the images and content these same folks post that then appears in our feeds if we return the favor. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be that if you don't follow-back, friend-back, contact-back, etc. that you're being rude. That seems to be a very real generational divide -- and probably doesn't have much of a solution currently (if one is even needed -- it's up to us to not also follow the other person if the service allows one-way following or friend-ing).

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Peter Cooper — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:02 -0000

This is why the United Kingdom is experiencing record levels of youth crime. Many of the youth of today have little to no interaction with adults outside of their family group, and certainly no disciplinary interaction.

Without adult society as a whole disciplining and guiding children, we are left only with discipline coming from parents, and this seems to be weaker than ever, with most parents pandering to their children rather than directing them.

To children, adults are becoming anonymous automatons who refuse to interact with them, so they become like tin cans on a wall.. mere targets that can provide amusement but won't fight back.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Peter Cooper — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:55:56 -0000

At my old age of 31, were I to be a "real world" friend of any 20 year old girl, people should be asking questions. If I were palling around with some 14 year-old boy geek, they would be asking other questions.

Why would or should they? Do we really want to perpetuate this weird, and extremely modern, quirk in society where we should be suspicious of people's associations with the young? We've done reasonably okay for thousands of years with adults and children interacting in a mostly healthy way.. yet only in the last 50 years have the scare stories of pedophilia (which is no more common now than ever), child snatchers (ditto) and child abuse caused otherwise intelligent adults to fear talking to children. Let's not perpetuate this, otherwise our young will have no guidance other than from their parents.. and we're already seeing what a gigantic failure that is.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Nicole Simon (Berlin, Germany) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:45:36 -0000

my brother has a 19 year old girlfriend - he is 32 - so you can imagine the laughs he gets when he talks about her. but you are right, there are some levels to it where it may sound creepy - but only if there is something to be found creepy.

I recently had a longer talk with somebody (way younger) who noted that he does not feel taken seriously from 'the older' people. Which I think answers very much your question of "What do give that person": you acknowledge them as being adults or being grown up enough to be with adults.

At the same time I think one sometimes should take into account that some years of life experience will be missing, one way or the other, but other than that, this is what you provide them with. I think that is a lot.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Christopher Harley — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:34:24 -0000

I wouldn't think it anymore creepy if they were reading an advice column you had written for a regional newspaper. The idea is that younger readers and followers of your stream reach out to you and not the other way around. If what you experience and then share with your readers comes from a broader perspective on life, don't be surprised that younger folks would find interest in that. Roll with it, you're a stand-up guy!

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Shey — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:27:18 -0000

Whew, at 26 I think I pass the safe filter :)

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Andy DeSoto — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:14:36 -0000

Great comment.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Andy DeSoto — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:14:09 -0000

Here's the thing-- once you start thinking of it as "creepy," it gets creepy because every interaction you have with younger individuals at that point has that second-guessing context to it ("Should I be talking to this person? I'm old enough to be their father!") What you pretty much have to do, I think, is, just as Duncan Riley recommended, "judge people as they come." I know folks younger than I am that act older than me. (Don't know what that's saying about myself, of course.)

Maybe here's a good comparison:

People always talk about how age differences mean less as you age. In middle school, it was a travesty to be hanging out with 7th graders if you were an 8th grader, for instance. In high school, it's acceptable to date those that are maybe 1 or 2 years away from you, and in college, you're golden unless you're palling around with high schoolers-- creepy.

Perhaps, in the online world, this age range is maximized. If someone's mature enough to speak with you online, they're mature enough to hang out with.

(Note that many of the physical characteristics of age are often eliminated online: tone of voice, body size and shape, perhaps other habits, too.)

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Louis Gray — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:34:48 -0000

I was there when my twins were born, and I didn't see any cell phones. That does remind me I should be checking their room and dresser periodically though.

Re: louisgray.com: As I Get Older, Some Online "Friending" Gets Creepier

Louis Gray — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:34:01 -0000

Yuvi, you are a fantastic example of a young Web user making a name for themselves. I'd be honored to meet you in real life and help propel your next venture.